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Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

Were there an army of Mexican Woman and Children marching across the border at me, and I was ordered to fire... I would disobey orders.

You're twisting my logic, of course you have the right to secure your borders, find the illegals and deport them if you must. But I simply do not see the answer being shooting everyone that starts crossing, are you honestly suggesting that everyone that crosses the border has the malicious intent of causing harm to you?

Get Apache helicopters and destroy the cartels for all I care, if they're causin trouble, wipe em out. But I simply cannot condone shooting innocent people that just want a better life, RIGHT or WRONG.

Sorry but the revolving door deportation policy obviously doesn't work, the nation state has the right to the use of lethal force to secure its border just as the individual has the right to defend his property against trespassers. This whole "think of the children" scheme that you have worked up isn't buying any sympathy from me, because a) the use of deadly force would be used at the officers discretion, and b) the blood of any children killed would be on the hands of those who brought them across the border illegally knowing that it was risking their lives. Besides how many sane people who aren't working with the cartels are actually going to cross the border when they know that every time they do they are putting their own lives at risk. Hell the threat of lethal force alone would probably drop the immigration rate exponentially.
 
Sorry but the revolving door deportation policy obviously doesn't work, the nation state has the right to the use of lethal force to secure its border just as the individual has the right to defend his property against trespassers. This whole "think of the children" scheme that you have worked up isn't buying any sympathy from me, because a) the use of deadly force would be used at the officers discretion, and b) the blood of any children killed would be on the hands of those who brought them across the border illegally knowing that it was risking their lives. Besides how many sane people who aren't working with the cartels are actually going to cross the border when they know that every time they do they are putting their own lives at risk. Hell the threat of lethal force alone would probably drop the immigration rate exponentially.

Hey... go have fun shooting children at the Border Ferris... I would never wanna order such a thing...

I get the illegal thing, if it was happening here I'd feel just as pissed off as you. But there has to be a better way then killing... I already admitted I didn't know what the answer was... but I'm sure it isn't killing. Call it a hunch but its not the way. We have to be better then that.
 
a) the use of deadly force would be used at the officers discretion, and b).

Indeed, if the officer involved is doing the deed then he/she should bask in the glory that is killing illegals that need killing without having to worry about going to trial.

The officer will embrace the hate and will enjoy the press of a fine trigger...but I betcha he or she will be the first, the Feds throw under the bus
 
Hey... go have fun shooting children at the Border Ferris... I would never wanna order such a thing...


I get the illegal thing, if it was happening here I'd feel just as pissed off as you. But there has to be a better way then killing... I already admitted I didn't know what the answer was... but I'm sure it isn't killing. Call it a hunch but its not the way. We have to be better then that.

This is a ****ing war pal, Los Zetas is murdering hundreds of ****ing people every ****ing day on both sides of the border and in addition to running nearly the entirety of Northern Mexico has actually taken over territory from the U.S. and has contracted MS-13 to infiltrate the U.S. from sea to shining sea carrying out hits on anyone who gets in their way, we're not talking about a street gang here we're talking about a highly disciplined organization with a military command structure which was founded and is still controlled by a special forces unit of trained assassins armed to the teeth with unlimited funds and resources which is willing to kill anyone (and I mean anyone) who gets in their way, there is no other way to secure the border than to resort to a war footing and that means a no man's land along the border with anti-personel mines and shoot on site authorization for our border guards. These guys make Pablo Escobar look like a *****.
 
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This is a ****ing war pal, Los Zetas is murdering hundreds of ****ing people every ****ing day on both sides of the border and and in addition to running the entirety of Northern Mexico has actually taken over territory from the U.S., we're not talking about a street gang here we're talking about a highly disciplined organization with a military command structure which was founded by a special forces unit of trained assassins armed to the teeth with unlimited funds and resource, there is no other way to secure the border than to resort to a war footing and that means a no man's land along the border with anti-personel mines and shoot on site authorization for our border guards. These guys make Pablo Escobar look like a *****.

I said, go wipe out the cartels with helicopters and troops if that's what you wanna do buddy.

But we do not have to kill Woman and Children in t he process.
 
The pressure, the WH is putting on Arizona´s governor is ruthless. The governor will not call, the state National Guard because "Arizona doesn't have any money". The governor wants the feds to pay for it, and/or send troops. She knows damn well, the feds will not send jack****

It appears that way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpyrlX52TwA


You have the right to secure your borders, but not to gun down innocent civillians who cross the border in a desperate attempt for a better life. Yeah it sucks, and it shouldn't happen, but killing is not the answer... it raises the stakes, and violence will be met with violence, and more people will die.

Ok, give them the ROE fire only if fired on. The areas of arizona are not closed off to AMERICANS because of a bunch of kids running around... we're talking about DRUG and HUMAN traffickers. Guys with GUNS selling COKE in these parks.

Are we going to 'cede' the land back to mexico?? Yes there's the desperate people, but 1000's of people per day crossing over, let's say 400 of them are fighting age males. That turns into a battallion every month.

They want a better life, they can :
a - Start a revolution in their own country to depose the scumbags down there
b - Go through the legal process of immigration

I have NO problems with people of any race, color creed... I don't mind people visiting, I'm absolutely color blind in that sense. I DO have a problem with people that come here illegally, don't pay taxes but enjoy the services. End of Story.

Now when you have people SHOOTING AT and KILLING americans and they are coming in 1000's per day... that's an INVASION, of ILLEGAL immigrants... frankly, by Obama NOT dealing with this complete disregard for the sovereignty of this country... I almost think that borders on TREASONOUS activity, certainly IMPEACHABLE in that he's acting negligently on the subject.

I don't know what the answer is... but if you wanna send marines to the border to play Rambo, you better be ready for all the consequences...

I know that there'd be consequences... BUT, wars are MEANT to be against people INVADING your country... NOT off in some distant land because you're trying to get resources.

Another example of conservatives grossly exaggerating what liberals think. Hear it often enough and you actually start to think it's true!

Ok, then what's your PLAN to DEAL with 10000's of thousands coming into the country illegally every month??? What do you plan to do to stem the flow of drugs??? Are you ok with these drug lords using women and children as veritable human shields??

Now, who is willing to sign up. Sign up, to kill women and children because thats what it will take to stop the leaky faucet

I'm not saying run through gunning down all the women and children, but we're talking about lots of ARMED DRUG AND HUMAN SMUGGLERS invading the country 'justified' because there are women and children that are walking along side them???

How many people signed up to kill women and children in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, soon to be Iran, etc.??? How many people signed up to guard opium fields in Afghanistan so that 'taliban doesn't get the profits' (forgetting that it was the TALIBAN that ended poppy production in 2001)??

Now, in that sense I'm ignorant somewhat, I was under the impression that you signed up to serve, not necessarily to choose your tasks??

That said, if I didn't know that I would end up in Iraq or Afghanistan or Iran I would actually sign up to get that border into check.

Now... since we all seem to agree that the feds aren't going to do anything about this aside from amnesty (or some amnesty light, since I apparently grossly exaggerate what's wanted), why doesn't he SHERIFF's in these affected country round up the millitia's and say listen "you guys are my deputees while we clean out the scum from this park and send the mexicans back to mexico, whether they like it or not." They are still allowed to do that, right?

When does it end??
 
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I said, go wipe out the cartels with helicopters and troops if that's what you wanna do buddy.

But we do not have to kill Woman and Children in t he process.

Brilliant military strategy, allow the enemy to continue to infiltrate behind your ranks while you're busy targeting goats with helicopters in the ****ing desert. You need to shut the border the **** down like the 38th parallel in Korea.
 
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You have the right to secure your borders, but not to gun down innocent civillians who cross the border in a desperate attempt for a better life. Yeah it sucks, and it shouldn't happen, but killing is not the answer... it raises the stakes, and violence will be met with violence, and more people will die.

I don't know what the answer is... but if you wanna send marines to the border to play Rambo, you better be ready for all the consequences...

If they're crossing the borders illegally, then they're not innocent and its pefectly ok to perforate them.
 
Brilliant military strategy, allow the enemy to continue to infiltrate behind your ranks while you're busy targeting goats with helicopters in the ****ing desert.

LOL... I wasn't thinking helicopters as much as say 100-150 tanks and maybe 2-3000 soldiers should cut it, and if the resistance heats up to where it can't be handled, then we will know to call it what it is : a HOT invasion of the country.

I've been left with the impression overall that most soldiers will avoid shooting women and children if it can be avoided either way.
 
If they're crossing the borders illegally, then they're not innocent and its pefectly ok to perforate them.

You don't have to shoot them, but go in armed, so if they DO start shooting, you can still send them back.
 
LOL... I wasn't thinking helicopters as much as say 100-150 tanks and maybe 2-3000 soldiers should cut it, and if the resistance heats up to where it can't be handled, then we will know to call it what it is : a HOT invasion of the country.

I've been left with the impression overall that most soldiers will avoid shooting women and children if it can be avoided either way.

We need to seal the border first like the demilitarized zone in Korea, I could care less what they do in northern Mexico just so long as the **** isn't spilling over into the States. Let the Mexicans handle Mexico, in case of breaches of the demilitarized zone they could authorize punitive strikes within Mexico.
 
If they're crossing the borders illegally, then they're not innocent and its pefectly ok to perforate them.

Should we gun down jaywalkers too? Afterall they are also guilty of a crime! I can see it now, a glorious field of sniper towers across our urban landscape gunning down any who dare cross outside the designated crosswalk.

Illegal immigration is a serious issue and should be addressed, but we need to maintain some sense of perspective here.
 
You don't have to shoot them, but go in armed, so if they DO start shooting, you can still send them back.

Land mines were developed specifically to provide unmonitored wide-area perimeter defense.

Mine fields are extremely effective at curbing transgression.
 
Should we gun down jaywalkers too?

If the street marks the US-Mexico border, then sure, blast away.

Illegal immigration is a serious issue

Yes, and the first step is interdiction of all unauthorized border crossings by the most effective means possible.

That means fences to mark the boundary, bullets and explosives to train the enemy that business is now serious.

and should be addressed, but we need to maintain some sense of perspective here.

My perspective is that my country is being over run by enemy aliens to the detriment of my children's future.

I joined the military to protect this nation.

That means I'm not averse to killing the enemy.
 
Should we gun down jaywalkers too? Afterall they are also guilty of a crime! I can see it now, a glorious field of sniper towers across our urban landscape gunning down any who dare cross outside the designated crosswalk.

No, we shouldn't gun down citizens for minor lawbreaking... this isn't hippie land over here... that's why we HAVE a millitary, it's to DEFEND the homeland, not invade a country for a single fugitive when you wouldn't supply the evidence of his guilt as condition for extradition.

We're not talking about a string of mothers and children... of course there are families and what not, but among them are DRUG DEALERS that are KILLING PEOPLE on OUR side of the border. Up to 80 miles in, sure I could see confusion of a border crossing with a few miles or something, but we this is a clear invasion of US territory.

NOBODY is advocating shooting down families crossing the border... they should be rounded up, arrested as they are caught, and be extradited. The army going in is ONLY suggested because there are cops being KILLED and they can no longer handle the situation on their own.

Illegal immigration is a serious issue and should be addressed, but we need to maintain some sense of perspective here.

Here's my perspective : Just war theory says that you are JUSTIFIED in DECLARING war when there is a clear invasion of your terrirtories and your direct interests (embargoes on trade routes, etc) and even then only after a vote in the house and congress... the 10th ammendment would also allow arizona to cede from the union and handle this breach in it's own way.

Land mines were developed specifically to provide unmonitored wide-area perimeter defense.

Mine fields are extremely effective at curbing transgression.

They are also considered to be crimes against humanity to be used in conflict zones BECAUSE they kill indiscriminately.

If the street marks the US-Mexico border, then sure, blast away.

I would argue to give them the option of surrender first...

Yes, and the first step is interdiction of all unauthorized border crossings by the most effective means possible.

That means fences to mark the boundary, bullets and explosives to train the enemy that business is now serious.

Exactly... the only downside with fences is that there are areas where private property concerns interfere.


My perspective is that my country is being over run by enemy aliens to the detriment of my children's future.

I joined the military to protect this nation.

That means I'm not averse to killing the enemy.

Thank you... and if it's women and children then they would be best done to surrender when found.
 
NOBODY is advocating shooting down families crossing the border...

If they refuse to be arrested, shoot them.

It's that simple.

they should be rounded up, arrested as they are caught, and be extradited. The army going in is ONLY suggested because there are cops being KILLED and they can no longer handle the situation on their own.

The Invasion of the United States is a military matter, not a criminal matter, even though many aspects of it can be treated with criminal prosecutions and civil authority. Ultimately the security of the border is a military issue.

They are also considered to be crimes against humanity to be used in conflict zones BECAUSE they kill indiscriminately.

Who's use them indiscriminately?

We'd only use them along the border. That's a well defined area.

We'd be nice, and post signs along the border. I'm sure we'd even be willing to fund advertising on TV and radio outlets all through Mexico and Central and South America, showing women and children and coyotes and cows and javelinas getting blown up by our little surprises, just to make sure that people crossing into the US are fully aware of what's underfoot.

Screw interantional law, the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo states that either party can fortify any portion of it's side of the border it sees fit without consultation with the other party.

I would argue to give them the option of surrender first...

Easy enough.

Make the land mine scream "BOOOOM!" in Spanish 1500 milliseconds before they go off.

Actually, I guess they could scream "BOOOOM!" in English, since "BOOOOM!" seems to be one of those "Universal Language" items.

Coincident with placing the land mines, naturally the Congress would pass a law preventing the courts from entertaining any claims of damage to property or for personal injury to anyone blown up by these devices.

Exactly... the only downside with fences is that there are areas where private property concerns interfere.

Welcome to the real purpose of the Eminent Domain provision of the Constitution of the United States of America. It was never intended to allow municipal and state and federal governments to seize private property and hand it off to another private party, as the Lefties on the USSC did under the Kelo vs New London decision. It was intended to allow the government the power to take land for the public good, and nothing is more publicly beneficial that stopping the Invasion of the United States by Mexico.

Thank you... and if it's women and children then they would be best done to surrender when found.

Or, they can crawl back to Mexico, since they should be facing ten years in jail if they're found on this side of the border.
 
There's really not a whole lot I can disagree with...

I really can't believe the irony; the government is always willing to go to war with a nation because they MIGHT be able to get a WMD some years from now... and here's an ACTUAL legitimate JUST WAR and they are standing down.

I really can't side with landmines. There has to be better ways... Though I do agree that typically border patrol is a millitary matter... I mean, in just about every other country illegal immigration is a VERY serious offence, in some cases a capital offense.

Hadn't considered eminent domain...
 
You need to shut the border the **** down like the 38th parallel in Korea.

Many Americans would think that would turn the US into the old USSR or N Korea besides our entire LATAM policy is set by the Mexican lobby and Cuban expat community in Miami. That won't happen
 
Many Americans are stupid if they think putting up a fence to keep an Invading force OUT is the moral equivalent of North Korea or the Soviet Union.

Keep out...a different concept from "Can't Get Out".

I'm all for letting whoever wants to leave to go. Who needs 'em?
 
Honestly, if we crack down on employers, actually check IDs, and prevent illegals from getting any jobs then we stop the reason why they come. Border security is vital and important, but so is cracking down on employers who give these people jobs. I have heard that some employers actually advocate and advertise job opportunities in Mexico and entice people to illegally come to the US to get paid below minimum wage. We need to secure the border and deal with things in the US.
 
Many Americans would think that would turn the US into the old USSR or N Korea besides our entire LATAM policy is set by the Mexican lobby and Cuban expat community in Miami. That won't happen

Surely if people can dig under,go around or go through Canada then it shouldn't matter to pro-illegals if a wall is on the border.
 
If you had a leaky faucet would you close it as best you can so that only a little water gets through or do you let the water faucet run at full blast?

I replace the water faucet with one that works correctly.
 
Thank you miss Napolitano for beating up so well on that strawman. Wonderful job. You really beat the stuffing out of him.

Now can you please address the reality of the situation where most people advocating for the wall acknowledge and understand that you can't TOTALLY seal the border but that sealing it in conjunction with other enforcement steps can significantly reduce the number of individiauls making it into the country?
 
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