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Thread: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No. That explanation just doesn't line up with how things actually progressed. The Democrats haven't changed their position on immigration for like 20 years. The Republican plan was actually almost exactly the same as the Democrat's plan up until just this last year or so. Even in the last election Republicans got about 1/3 of hispanic voters.
    I'm not going to dispute that... but you're talking about votes from legal american-hispanic voters, right?? Where the voting block that I referred to was for how illegal immigrant mexicans who retain their mexican identity would vote if given amnesty.

    Some elections they have gotten more than 50%. Then, all of a sudden, the GOP went for this whole wave of anti-hispanic stuff- US senators launched racial attacks on Sotomayor, english as a national language stuff, AZ Republicans have been passing a flurry of anti-hispanic laws in addition to the ones dealing with illegal immigration, prominent Republicans comparing La Raza to the KKK... The Republicans have created this situation where a hispanic voter is pretty much certain to be a Democrat just in the past year or so. The Democrats didn't do anything any differently on this stuff, the Republicans changed their position and alienated the hispanics. Really it isn't even too late to turn it back around for the GOP. Lots of hispanics have only been saying they will vote Democrat for a few months now. A concerted effort to cut out all the anti-hispanic stuff would bring them back in to play easily. Keep in mind, hispanic culture is traditionally very conservative and highly religious... A huge portion of them would vote Republican if they were welcome in the party, but clearly they aren't anymore.
    Ok, we're at a loss here because I'm not talking about this from a 'democrat vs republican' perspective.

    As for Sotomayor, I've been told about her book 'america's deadly obsession' (or something to that effect) all about how american's don't really have an individual right to keep and bear arms... that's alot closer to the root of the attacks, rather then this race pimping attempt to legitimize her positions.

    As for the 'la raza' -> hispanic kkk... yes, it is. They also talk about 'la reconquista'. All of this has NOTHING to do with legal hispanic americans. I'm sorry that they feel individually targeted, but it's really not the case.

    Arizona's law IS NOT ANTI-HISPANIC. EVERYONE that's claimed it is, simply has not read the actual legislation. It simply states that if someone is arrested, and cannot provide ID that they have their citizenship verified through ICE.

    I think you're misreading that. It is about people who are travelling for work on behalf of an employer having benefit reciprocity. It explicitly limits the scope of the agreement to that scenario...
    That was only one of the documents anyway... there's about 150-200 pages worth of documents on the subject of bringing about a north american union, much like the european union, though politically, it seems as though the north american currency will be bypassed for the global 'special drawing rights units' that have been discussed recently.
    (for just 1 source on this new global currency) UN Report: Dollar Should Be Replaced As Main Reserve Currency - WSJ.com

    Oh come on... That's some tinfoil hat stuff man... The number of illegal immigrants living in the US has fallen 3 years in a row... Meaning more illegal immigrants are leaving than are arriving...
    Ok, let's say you're right... I have no reason to believe you're lying anyway... but the illegal immigrants are leaving faster then they are coming :

    Well, there's still a large swath of arizona that's for all intents and purposes 'mexican' territory now. The economy is crashing in the US as well, meaning fewer jobs even for the illegals... what that is NOT stopping in any way shape or form is that the drug cartels are coming into US territory to smuggle their wares, shooting and killing cops, farmers, and anyone else that's getting in their way.

    SO, EVEN IF most of the 'benign' illegal immigrants (as in here illegally, but just trying to make a life for themselves and follow the laws) are leaving, they are now being replaced with the violent drug pushers that have no interest in following ANY laws, have no interest in becoming american, have disdain for americans, believe that whites have 'stolen' their territory and they want it back.

    I know you (or someone) said about that town hall meeting I linked up that 'the republican can't be trusted'... but think about it this way : If Obama will tell his opposition something like this, then just imagine what he's telling his friends. Unless it can be shown that this conversation never happened, or that the senator Kyl never actually went to the whitehouse...

    I really DO wish that it was just some 'tin hatter' nonsense... when the reality is that while everyone politically is saying the right things... what is being DONE falls in line with the 'tin hatter' position.

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It's incredibly hard. Finding a person who doesn't want to be found in a country with 4 million square miles, 311 million people, maybe a million places of employment is ridiculously hard. Even in the case of murderers, who we want to find far more than we want to find an individual illegal immigrant, we only manage to catch a measly 9% of the culprits and we spend millions per case just to get even that 9%. There are 10 million illegal immigrants here... Think about what would it take you to avoid being caught by the police if they wanted to catch you? Just go crash on a friend's couch and get a fake ID, and they pretty much have zero chance of catching you unless they launch a massive effort with photographs of you being circulated around and tapping phones and interogating everybody you know, undercovers lurking outside your parents' house in case you try to sneak by to say hi and whatnot... Now try doing that 10 million times and you have a police action of unprecedented scale... Trillions of dollars, decades of time, and massive sacrifies of civil rights. Look what the Nazis had to do in order to round up 8 million Jews. I know, I know, I'm not saying it's like the gas chambers, but it's one of the only historical cases where anywhere near that many people who didn't want to be found were "rounded up" by a government. They had to suspend all civil rights for everybody, they had to launch massive campaigns to go door to door searching every house, they had to spend insane amounts of money, kill people who wouldn't turn their neighbors in, etc, etc. It wouldn't be much easier for us to do something on a similar scale. Or, look at how we're doing catching insurgents in Iraq. We're spending almost a trillion dollars a year there and catching maybe 10,000 a year? If that?

    "Rounding up" 10 million people who want to disappear is not an easy thing by any stretch of the imagination. It would be a massive law enforcement effort beyond anything you can imagine... We'd need to expand ICE to something several time larger than all the current law enforcement agencies combined and give them unlimited power with no due process restrictions or warrants required or anything... Nation-wide police state... It just isn't an option.
    Well we need to create more jobs in this country so sounds as if this may be a chance to do just that! lol.

    And we are the USA so no way you can try to say we are or would do something that even compairs to the holocaust.

    But I have to say in reguards to their civil rights? Umm. I really do not give a crap about it to be honest as they are criminals and freely roaming about while costing us a boatload of money.

    Sure they have a right to not be shot or anything like that but they also deserve to have their asses sent back where they came from and then are free to come back if they do it the right way-the legal way.
    Last edited by Kali; 07-05-10 at 10:20 PM.
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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    I'm not going to dispute that... but you're talking about votes from legal american-hispanic voters, right?? Where the voting block that I referred to was for how illegal immigrant mexicans who retain their mexican identity would vote if given amnesty.
    Fair distinction, but IMO had the Republicans not gone the way they have in the last 12 months or so on some of these issues, they would have had just as good a chance of picking that block up as well. Hispanics tend to be socially very conservative and very Christian. It really took a lot to drive them into the ranks of the Democrats, and even now, they could be won back pretty easily if the GOP put in a decent attempt at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    As for Sotomayor, I've been told about her book 'america's deadly obsession' (or something to that effect) all about how american's don't really have an individual right to keep and bear arms... that's alot closer to the root of the attacks, rather then this race pimping attempt to legitimize her positions.
    That's not the stuff that offended the hispanic voters. Hispanics poll as being pretty pro-gun. Moreso than whites. What offended them was the racial attacks. For example, the biggest negative stereotype against hispanics is that they are "hot tempered". Republican senators used exactly those words to describe Sotomayor... I mean, the woman is a supreme court justice. She spent like 16 hours a day quietly reading in a law library for like 20 years... "Hot tempered" is how you describe a dog that won't stop biting people, not a judge... That really struck an ugly cord with hispanic voters. Either that means that the senators were intentionally trying to appeal to a racial stereotype to attack her, or they really were so out of touch with hispanics that they didn't realize what they were doing, but either way, not the party you'd vote for if you were hispanic.

    And then the attacks on her about the 'wise latina' remarks were poorly done. The actual context of her remarks was completely positive. She was trying to respond to negative stereotypes against hispanics and women on the bench, not trying for some kind of hispanic female supremacy or something... She didn't really word it right, but whatever, everybody knows that was her intention, so going after her like that just smacks of an attempt to stir up racial conflict against hispanics to me, and to many hispanic voters.

    Note that the only hispanic Republican senator resigned immediately after he cast his vote to confirm her. That's a HUUUUGE deal. He saw the inner workings of the Republican committees and whatnot on the topic and he found them so offensive that he was willing to give up his position as a US senator rather than remain associated with it... I think a lot of that whole part of the plot wasn't really picked up by the media and a lot of people, particularly on the right, were somewhat oblivious to it, but it was a massive deal in the hispanic community and it really was handled poorly, even offensively, by the Republican senators. Sotomayor was a hero for hispanics. Kids that had been growing up sort of thinking that hispanics never really had a shot in this country saw a hispanic woman overcoming all of that and getting one of the most important jobs in the country in one of the most intellectually demanding fields there is, then they had to sit there and watch a bunch of old white men tossing racist stereotypes at her... By all means, Republicans were with their rights to attack her, but they could have done it without bringing race into it... It really was tactless and racially insensitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    As for the 'la raza' -> hispanic kkk... yes, it is. They also talk about 'la reconquista'. All of this has NOTHING to do with legal hispanic americans. I'm sorry that they feel individually targeted, but it's really not the case.
    La Raza is a civil rights organization... They are the opposite of the KKK... They provide legal services to people who believe they have been discriminated against, scholarships, economic opportunities, etc. The KKK lynches people and calls for ethnic cleansing... To compare the two is just crazy... Freaking Walmart and Citigroup and whatnot donate money to La Raza for goodness sake. And, La Raza is primarily about protecting the rights of citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Arizona's law IS NOT ANTI-HISPANIC. EVERYONE that's claimed it is, simply has not read the actual legislation. It simply states that if someone is arrested, and cannot provide ID that they have their citizenship verified through ICE.
    I'm guessing you mean 1070 only. 1070 was originally written to allow racial profiling, then they caved in to the pressure and the house amended it to prohibit racial profiling. That was good, but we still have to look at how it is used. Arpaio is clearly racially profiling and 1070 will just ramp that up into hyperdrive.

    But, that is only one of several anti-hispanic laws in AZ from the past few months. They also passed a law banning cultural studies courses, english only laws, a law to fire teachers who have accents, they're even proposing a law to deny birth certificates to citizen born here if their parents are illegal immigrants.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Well, there's still a large swath of arizona that's for all intents and purposes 'mexican' territory now.
    Yeah. That is, IMO, not about illegal immigration, it is about the drug trafficking. That I do think is a serious issue and should be dealt with accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    SO, EVEN IF most of the 'benign' illegal immigrants (as in here illegally, but just trying to make a life for themselves and follow the laws) are leaving, they are now being replaced with the violent drug pushers that have no interest in following ANY laws, have no interest in becoming american, have disdain for americans, believe that whites have 'stolen' their territory and they want it back.
    I don't believe that. The studies I've seen have all found that illegal immigrants actually commit far fewer crimes per capita. If that is changing that radically, I would need to see some evidence backing that up.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    I know you (or someone) said about that town hall meeting I linked up that 'the republican can't be trusted'... but think about it this way : If Obama will tell his opposition something like this, then just imagine what he's telling his friends. Unless it can be shown that this conversation never happened, or that the senator Kyl never actually went to the whitehouse...
    No way. We can't presume that everything a member of one party claims about the other is true unless there is proof they are lying... To believe something somebody says about the opposition they need to be able to back it up with evidence. Otherwise we could just all go around making up whatever we wanted. Winning an election would be as easy as making up the nastiest story about the other side...

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Fair distinction, but IMO had the Republicans not gone the way they have in the last 12 months or so on some of these issues, they would have had just as good a chance of picking that block up as well. Hispanics tend to be socially very conservative and very Christian. It really took a lot to drive them into the ranks of the Democrats, and even now, they could be won back pretty easily if the GOP put in a decent attempt at it.
    It doesn't matter who is in power, if the voting block gets in place it will serve both republican AND democrat agenda's... they really are the left and right arms of the 'big government party', they just have different preferences.

    That's not the stuff that offended the hispanic voters. Hispanics poll as being pretty pro-gun. Moreso than whites. What offended them was the racial attacks. For example, the biggest negative stereotype against hispanics is that they are "hot tempered". Republican senators used exactly those words to describe Sotomayor... I mean, the woman is a supreme court justice. She spent like 16 hours a day quietly reading in a law library for like 20 years... "Hot tempered" is how you describe a dog that won't stop biting people, not a judge... That really struck an ugly cord with hispanic voters. Either that means that the senators were intentionally trying to appeal to a racial stereotype to attack her, or they really were so out of touch with hispanics that they didn't realize what they were doing, but either way, not the party you'd vote for if you were hispanic.
    Ok... I'm ignorant about this... but 'hot tempered' hardly seems to be a 'racial slur'... I shouldn't really say much about sotomayor, but from what I did hear given the chance she will end the second amendment... the one good thing I did hear about here, in fairness, was that she opposed corporate personhood...

    And then the attacks on her about the 'wise latina' remarks were poorly done. The actual context of her remarks was completely positive. She was trying to respond to negative stereotypes against hispanics and women on the bench, not trying for some kind of hispanic female supremacy or something... She didn't really word it right, but whatever, everybody knows that was her intention, so going after her like that just smacks of an attempt to stir up racial conflict against hispanics to me, and to many hispanic voters.
    That's possible... though, I'm specifically ignorant, I have been told the perspecitve that her remarks were of a veiled hispanic supremacy... so, whether or not that was her intention, it seems that she successfully created a division where there was none prior.

    La Raza is a civil rights organization... They are the opposite of the KKK... They provide legal services to people who believe they have been discriminated against, scholarships, economic opportunities, etc. The KKK lynches people and calls for ethnic cleansing... To compare the two is just crazy... Freaking Walmart and Citigroup and whatnot donate money to La Raza for goodness sake. And, La Raza is primarily about protecting the rights of citizens.
    Yes... so long as you're hispanic. Walmart and citigroup... lol that goes to make my point stronger, since walmart makes billions off it's exploitation of minorities... and citigroup... well, you don't get to be a 'too big to fail' institution by throwing money around, unless it's to garner use of someone's political clout, to keep the response short. You could argue that the Black Panthers was a 'civil rights group', you could argue that the Taliban is a 'civil rights group fighting for their right to live'.

    The point of the matter is that I've seen what some of these hispanic teachers are calling for... they want to take down the capitalist system, thinking the ideal is communism. Not even knowing that the same bankers that fund them WANT to turn america into a communist type of country, and are using them as a tool to accomplish just that.

    I'm guessing you mean 1070 only. 1070 was originally written to allow racial profiling, then they caved in to the pressure and the house amended it to prohibit racial profiling. That was good, but we still have to look at how it is used. Arpaio is clearly racially profiling and 1070 will just ramp that up into hyperdrive.
    If the cops are racially profiling people, and you have evidence of it, then sue the cop... that's part of the republic. The cop is no more above the law (though he may try to be, and will have the favor of his word, so hard proof would be necessary).

    But, that is only one of several anti-hispanic laws in AZ from the past few months. They also passed a law banning cultural studies courses, english only laws, a law to fire teachers who have accents, they're even proposing a law to deny birth certificates to citizen born here if their parents are illegal immigrants.
    on the surface I would disagree with all those laws except for the last one... frankly, there are too many people that intentionally make 'anchor babies' to secure their position in the US. Also, that most of these laws could likely be challenged on their constitutionality... and they should be.

    Yeah. That is, IMO, not about illegal immigration, it is about the drug trafficking. That I do think is a serious issue and should be dealt with accordingly.
    Unfortunately the two have become intertwined, because if the 'illegal immigration' was under control, the drug traffickers would KNOW that it's not worth the risk. Now, like fungus sporing, it's quickly turning into a rampant problem.

    I don't believe that. The studies I've seen have all found that illegal immigrants actually commit far fewer crimes per capita. If that is changing that radically, I would need to see some evidence backing that up.
    I'll clarify, MOST of the actual immigrants that come to the US are from Mexico, and most of the time they become 'illegal immigrants' by 'overstaying their welcome'. Now, of those illegal immigrants, they simply want to work and be left alone like anyone else, and they are not commiting any crimes themselves.

    That said, the criminals that come in are much more brazen in their crimes because they don't have any allegiance to the country in the first place... my heart goes out to those illegals that must get sent home with their anchor babies because they couldn't fill out the paper work... they will leave with the taste for freedom like a dogs taste for blood and they will turn Mexico into a country that is free from those criminals and drug lord tyrants that plague the country.

    I have a tough love for these individuals who were used as a political tool, acting as a steam valve that allowed Mexico to deteriorate as it has into a failed state. Had the US been sterner with them in the beginning, they would have seen the freedom that is their goal, and that they must fight for it and earn their freedom either through immigrating legally, or through revolution of their own country.


    No way. We can't presume that everything a member of one party claims about the other is true unless there is proof they are lying... To believe something somebody says about the opposition they need to be able to back it up with evidence. Otherwise we could just all go around making up whatever we wanted. Winning an election would be as easy as making up the nastiest story about the other side...
    Ok.... of course politicians lie about stuff... but you are stuck in this 'left-right' pattern of thinking... Senator Kyl was not talking as a 'republican' he was talking as an 'american' to other americans who are concerned with what is going on in their state.

    When people are being killed and the cops are overwhelmed begging for help, how else would you expect him to say 'help is not coming'... even if the story is false, his delivery makes the statement clear : "HELP IS NOT COMING!!!!!!!"

    As for your tale about the nastiest stories... isn't that how it happens??

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I'm guessing you mean 1070 only. 1070 was originally written to allow racial profiling, then they caved in to the pressure and the house amended it to prohibit racial profiling. That was good, but we still have to look at how it is used. Arpaio is clearly racially profiling and 1070 will just ramp that up into hyperdrive.
    Why is it that most of us consider profiling to be efficient LE when it comes to terrorism...young, male, bearded and smelly muslim, but it is wrong when looking at the majority illegal alien demographic?

    Most US citizens can speak English with at least mediocre fluency. But when, you come across someone who "No habla ingles", they are illegals.

    LE (ICE, BP, local PD, etc., have a specific number of officers and time to perform their duties. Paying extra attention to, the "no hablo ingles"crowd is more likely to result in unearthing or unwrapping an illegal alien than trying to spread it around to everyone.

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Good discussion BmanMcfly

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ok... I'm ignorant about this... but 'hot tempered' hardly seems to be a 'racial slur'... I shouldn't really say much about sotomayor, but from what I did hear given the chance she will end the second amendment...
    Definitely there are totally legitimate reasons to either favor or oppose Sotomayor. I'm not saying at all that everybody needs to support her or they're a racist or something. But they should have steered well clear of the racial stuff. I wouldn't call "hot tempered" a "slur" really, but it is definitely the dominant stereotype, and that phrasing of it in particular is a standard way to attack hispanics. Like I said, maybe the senators were completely unaware of that, but at that level, where they have whole staffs of people helping plan their questions and whatnot... Where they're responsible for governing 40 million hispanics, that isn't really excusable even if it was inadvertent.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    the one good thing I did hear about here, in fairness, was that she opposed corporate personhood...
    Yeah, she is opposed to it. That's a huge one for me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    That's possible... though, I'm specifically ignorant, I have been told the perspecitve that her remarks were of a veiled hispanic supremacy... so, whether or not that was her intention, it seems that she successfully created a division where there was none prior.
    That is definitely how it was spun on the right, but I really don't think that is supported by the facts. If you read the stuff she's had to say on the topic of hispanics in the legal profession it's really clear. There are hardly any hispanics in high profile positions in the legal profession and she was constantly cheerleading for the notion that they can be good judges. The wise latina comment was basically to say "hey, there are advantages to having people on the bench that come from different backgrounds because their experiences give them a perspective that is underrepresented in the courts", which I think is a valid, and certainly not racist, point.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    If the cops are racially profiling people, and you have evidence of it, then sue the cop... that's part of the republic. The cop is no more above the law (though he may try to be, and will have the favor of his word, so hard proof would be necessary).
    Arpaio in particular. He is sheriff of 60% of the population of AZ and he has been sued MANY times for racial profiling. He has lost a ton of civil suits, costing Maricopa county somewhere around $100 million in settlements. ICE revoked his immigration enforcement powers following an investigation they did where they found rampant racial profiling. And the FBI is currently investigating him for it as well. But, the voters keep voting him in and 1070 restores and expands his immigration enforcement powers, so he's going to keep at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    on the surface I would disagree with all those laws except for the last one... frankly, there are too many people that intentionally make 'anchor babies' to secure their position in the US. Also, that most of these laws could likely be challenged on their constitutionality... and they should be.
    Yeah, they are being challenged on their constitutionality. The DoJ announced that they are putting the cases together. Actually, the one about kids born here to illegal immigrants is the most clearly unconstitutional. The 14th amendment explicitly says that if you're born here, you're a citizen and the states cannot deny you any priviledge or immunity of law, which a birth certificate definitely is.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Unfortunately the two have become intertwined, because if the 'illegal immigration' was under control, the drug traffickers would KNOW that it's not worth the risk. Now, like fungus sporing, it's quickly turning into a rampant problem.
    There is some truth to that... The problems are related. But I think the solutions are not so related. For example, border patrol addresses both problems, but programs designed to catch illegal immigrants or drug traffickers inside the country are totally distinct. People use drug trafficking as an argument to target illegal immigrants inside the US and that doesn't really make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ok.... of course politicians lie about stuff... but you are stuck in this 'left-right' pattern of thinking... Senator Kyl was not talking as a 'republican' he was talking as an 'american' to other americans who are concerned with what is going on in their state.
    No way you believe that I'm betting you believe that a politician is always looking for an angle. Don't you really? Competing at that level politically is a cut throat game. The ones that don't use every angle at their disposal get beat out.

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Why is it that most of us consider profiling to be efficient LE when it comes to terrorism...young, male, bearded and smelly muslim, but it is wrong when looking at the majority illegal alien demographic?
    Profiling is a TOTALLY ineffective way to fight terrorism. Any predictable pattern in enforcement like that is a weakness, not a strength. How hard would it be, in a world of 7 billion, to find a middle aged white lady who was willing to blow up a plane? Not as hard as people think. If that's all it takes to get around the attention of TSA, that's who they'll send.

    But, even putting that aside, we're more willing to accept abridgements of our civil rights to prevent terrorism than we are to fight illegal immigration. Terrorism is just a much bigger deal, so people get scared more easily and back down on their principles more quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Most US citizens can speak English with at least mediocre fluency. But when, you come across someone who "No habla ingles", they are illegals.
    No way. To be able to become a citizen you really only need a very basic command of English and lots of people just manage to study up enough for the test and then go back to speaking their native language.

    Have you ever tried to learn a language later in life? It's really hard... I thought it was really hard when I was in Jr High, but now just in my 30s I tried it again and found it almost impossible... I can't even imagine trying to do it in my 50s... I think it is a good thing for people to learn the language of course, but, you know, old dogs, new tricks and all... Realistically, it's usually the younger generation that really becomes fluent and people who move here as adults struggle.

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Profiling is a TOTALLY ineffective way to fight terrorism. Any predictable pattern in enforcement like that is a weakness, not a strength. How hard would it be, in a world of 7 billion, to find a middle aged white lady who was willing to blow up a plane? Not as hard as people think. If that's all it takes to get around the attention of TSA, that's who they'll send.

    But, even putting that aside, we're more willing to accept abridgements of our civil rights to prevent terrorism than we are to fight illegal immigration. Terrorism is just a much bigger deal, so people get scared more easily and back down on their principles more quickly.



    No way. To be able to become a citizen you really only need a very basic command of English and lots of people just manage to study up enough for the test and then go back to speaking their native language.

    Have you ever tried to learn a language later in life? It's really hard... I thought it was really hard when I was in Jr High, but now just in my 30s I tried it again and found it almost impossible... I can't even imagine trying to do it in my 50s... I think it is a good thing for people to learn the language of course, but, you know, old dogs, new tricks and all... Realistically, it's usually the younger generation that really becomes fluent and people who move here as adults struggle.
    If that person gets a job driving a truck that hauls hazardous materials; do you think it would be a good idea that he have more than just a basic command of English? Or, should he be fluent, so he can properly read hazardous materials transportation regulations, read hazmat shipping papers and be able to communicate a hazardous situation in the event of the accidental release of hazardous materials?

    The driver of this bus couldn't speak English. 24 people died on this bus.



    24 nursing home evacuees die in bus fire | Hurricane Rita | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #189
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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If that person gets a job driving a truck that hauls hazardous materials; do you think it would be a good idea that he have more than just a basic command of English? Or, should he be fluent, so he can properly read hazardous materials transportation regulations, read hazmat shipping papers and be able to communicate a hazardous situation in the event of the accidental release of hazardous materials?

    The driver of this bus couldn't speak English. 24 people died on this bus.

    24 nursing home evacuees die in bus fire | Hurricane Rita | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
    "We don't have a cause," Peritz said. "We have witness accounts that indicate they had a problem with the brakes or tires on one side of the vehicle when they saw it. That's all we have."


    According to state officials and records obtained Friday, the charter bus had a lapsed registration and a history of driver violations. But the carrier, Global Limo Inc., of Pharr, likely was pressed into service because of the emergency evacuations.


    No where in that article does it say that Him not being able to speak English was the CAUSE of the accident...

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    Re: Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Profiling is a TOTALLY ineffective way to fight terrorism. Any predictable pattern in enforcement like that is a weakness, not a strength. How hard would it be, in a world of 7 billion, to find a middle aged white lady who was willing to blow up a plane? Not as hard as people think. If that's all it takes to get around the attention of TSA, that's who they'll send.
    I disagree

    If a cop sees a 20-something Muslim male acting nervous at airport security ...Hmm, he's thinking. maybe that dude needs further screening. If he sees a bunch of rednecks with white sheets and a wooden cross walking around town eating KFC wings on a Tuesday night, he'd probably jump to the conclusion that they were some racist mofos that were up to no good. And if, he sees a 20-something Hispanic who very obviously "NO Hablo Ingles" standing outside of a Home Depot in a border state looking for "day work", ...He would probably conclude that maybe, just maybe that person might be here illegally.....

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