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Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    What other Constitutional rights can felons be denied, once they've served their sentence? What's so special about the right to keep and bear arms and the right to vote that they can be denied, when every other Constitutional right applies to ex-cons?

    See this is why I figure it like this:

    If we can trust them to be out among the general public again, then we can trust them with the right to bear arms... after all, they're likely to arm themselves anyway, legal or not.

    If we CAN'T trust them with the right to legally bear arms, then WHY the heck did we let them out of prison in the first place???

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You're right, not point in discussing what the Founders obviously said, which leaves little to interpret. Don't think they didn't know their words wouldn't be dissected by posterity.
    But, your overly simplistic argument assumes that the Founders would be cool with you being able to - without restriction - own tanks and nuclear bombs. Something tells me they wouldn't worry too much about such restrictions.

    Everyone comes up with these hypotheticals about the way guns protect them, but I've never encountered a situation where I would have felt better with one; and I've lived in large cities more than half of my life.

    I think there is a right to bear arms, under the premises of a well-regulated militia. Rifles and handguns are cool. I just don't want one, nor do I need one, nor are you bringing one on my property. Enjoy the decision.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yes. Inane emotionality is a part of human nature and any political system that fails to account for it is flawed, in my opinion.
    Emotion should be accounted for, as it is a debate starter. Logic should always be applied in the end.



    I think "productive" in the context you are using it is flawed. I don't see society accurately being split between net contributers and net noncontributers. Everyone contributes something, love and comfort to another individual if nothing else. Even people with mental handicap can make life better for someone else.
    Well, I concede that everyone has value in that at least in their own circle of influence their presence is important. The disabled try their best and I exempt them from my stance as they are suffering circumstances beyond their control, by productive however I am using this specifically in the vein of where socialism tries to define the line. To me, if you are able bodied and refuse to live without government handouts you are not productive, this is furthered when we add the fact that someone who is trying to build the best life they can for themselves has to work even harder to pay the taxes that come from it, no one that I personally know would punish those that have life altering disabilities that make maximum productivity impossible.



    Now we are getting to the meat of it I think. Stuff that is proven to work in terms of making society better.
    Absolutely, and this means the argument is settled, and beyond a shadow of a doubt it is an equal and provable benefit. Back to topic, no one has proven that gun control fits that criteria.



    I don't really like it either, but I think its true. I think we have to look at the stuff we like and don't like and engineer solutions taking everything into account if we are going to have a great society.
    I am hoping though that the shock that has been this current leadership, and I will throw in the GOP congress from around '02-'06 as well and the absolutely horrid job they have done will maybe wake people up permanently. I have hope on this because the high court has been hearing many more core constitution issues rather than the niche ones in the nineties, as well I am hearing more talk about proper governance from former fence leaners than ever before. Fingers crossed people.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    See this is why I figure it like this:

    If we can trust them to be out among the general public again, then we can trust them with the right to bear arms... after all, they're likely to arm themselves anyway, legal or not.

    If we CAN'T trust them with the right to legally bear arms, then WHY the heck did we let them out of prison in the first place???
    You'd trust them with a gun before a vote?

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yet the Founders understood that interpretation would be necessary, as not all future things could possibly be included. This is where YOU miss the boat.

    That's known as the Amendment process. If the Constitution needs changed, Amend it. "Interpreting" it out of anything like it was orginally intended to be is not an option, not without Amendments.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    See this is why I figure it like this:

    If we can trust them to be out among the general public again, then we can trust them with the right to bear arms... after all, they're likely to arm themselves anyway, legal or not.

    If we CAN'T trust them with the right to legally bear arms, then WHY the heck did we let them out of prison in the first place???
    I like the clemency option for former inmates, but the process shouldn't be at the whim of a board, it should be routine and available to anyone and a streamlined process. As well, non-violent felonies should not equal a due process loss of BOR protections upon release from prison.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    You'd trust them with a gun before a vote?
    Don't think I mentioned voting.... but since you ask, I believe that if we let them out of prison, that all their rights as a citizen should be restored.

    If we don't figure we can safely do so, don't let them out.

    I would prefer to see crimes like carjacking, forcible rape, armed robbery, and attempted murder carry life-without-parole sentences. Basically anything that involves the threat of death to innocent citizens and indicates a individual who is utterly careless of other's rights and lives.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    You'd trust them with a gun before a vote?
    What part of his post gave you that impression?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What part of his post gave you that impression?
    My theory on crime, punishment, and restoration of rights is kind of a holistic thing, and it all hangs together.

    1. Life without parole for the first offense of any serious violent crime indicating a criminal lack of regard for the lives of others: armed robbery, forcible rape, armed carjacking, hot burglary, etc. (premeditated murder, imho, should usually result in death.)

    2. Everyone else is eligible for parole after a period of time, but parole isn't automatic. You have to earn it.

    3. Only relatively minor offenders would be paroled, and thus there would be little danger in restoring to them all their normal rights as a citizen.

    I don't necessarily support the full restoration of all rights under the current mess, where habitual criminals are sometimes released when there is no reason to believe them rehabilitated.
    Last edited by Goshin; 06-28-10 at 05:57 PM.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  10. #90
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    My theory on crime, punishment, and restoration of rights is kind of a holistic thing, and it all hangs together.

    1. Life without parole for the first offense of any serious violent crime indicating a criminal lack of regard for the lives of others: armed robbery, forcible rape, armed carjacking, hot burglary, etc. (premeditated murder, imho, should usually result in death.)

    2. Everyone else is eligible for parole after a period of time, but parole isn't automatic. You have to earn it.

    3. Only relatively minor offenders would be paroled, and thus there would be little danger in restoring to them all their normal rights as a citizen.

    I don't necessarily support the full restoration of all rights under the current mess, where habitual criminals are sometimes released when there is no reason to believe them rehabilitated.
    You know, except for the fact that I refuse to consider life without parole a legitimate sentence-- you should either have a plan for how to rehabilitate them or you should put a bullet in them-- I like your approach here. There's a reason they're called the Department of Corrections, and that should be their primary purpose in dealing with convicts.

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