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Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

  1. #61
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Justice Breyer in his dissent:

    "Given the empirical and local value-laden nature of the questions that lie at the heart of the issue, why, in a nation whose constitution foresees democratic decision-making, is it so fundamental a matter as to require taking that power from the people?" Breyer wrote. "What is it here that the people did not know? What is it that a judge knows better?"
    Hmm. Lets apply this to the judiicial branch overturning the CA voter-apprived ban on gay marriage.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 06-28-10 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    I love how SCOTUS decisions never actually quell debates.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I love how SCOTUS decisions never actually quell debates.
    This decision makes significant strides to that end.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    It nearly was. Thats why its so scary to even consider liberals on the bench. They don't care what the law says. They want to enact social justice in their own image.
    For all the criticisms of the liberal members of the court that are justified, this is a bit over the top.

    As to the rest of the thread: It's a good decision and it sounds like the bulk of those posting here are pleased with it. Let's not turn this into an excuse to list off all the things we don't like about liberal posters here.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I love how SCOTUS decisions never actually quell debates.
    Thats because legality and morality are different things in most people's views.

  6. #66
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The way I see it is that human nature will always attempt (in aggregate) to find a balance between ideal freedom and ideal safety and ultimately is largely reactive to events instead of proactive. If I put words into your mouth, I apologize, but I think what you see as society becoming socialist and unfree is what I see as society finding its own balance as human nature dictates.
    Completely disagree, socialism is a way of excusing failure and subsidizing it, sorry if that seems harsh but it is the least mature and responsible way of governance, anytime you penalize those who earn and produce to subsidize those that don't......and I include much of the public sector here, then there is no balance. Human nature is to create, to exist, and to seek that which provides comfort and joy, if someone punishes my production then I am less free, when they use my funds to justify laws that are not within their perview or scope of authority it leaves me less options, that makes me less free. This is the human nature argument.
    I think the ultimate end result to this process will largely resemble europe and be a social democracy and not something akin to a communist state.
    I don't want a baby Europe and neither would most Americans, hell, Europeans are starting to hate the Eurosocialist model, they usually hated it to begin with but accepted it, austerity is dying as we speak.
    I see a lot of fears of socialism expressed here, and coupled with those fears, I tend to see people using the slippery slope argument, thinking that this thing will never stop.
    And with good reason, why should those gaining power stop taking? Unless they are stopped, held accountable, and ultimately prosecuted. Perfect examples, the hijacking of industries by the D.C. crowd, the financial bill which seems more like a pirate raid than a reform bill, that damned health bill, gun control, etc. The more power they get the faster they grab.
    And in a sense, I don't think it will, as people react to changing circumstance and technology, but I think it will end up bouncing around some center point than it would be going full communist.
    People are waking up, I think November will decide the path for a couple of decades minimum, but I don't see this country going socialist.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 06-28-10 at 03:38 PM.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Completely disagree, socialism is a way of excusing failure and subsidizing it, sorry if that seems harsh but it is the least mature and responsible way of governance, anytime you penalize those who earn and produce to subsidize those that don't......and I include much of the public sector here, then there is no balance. Human nature is to create, to exist, and to seek that which provides comfort and joy, if someone punishes my production then I am less free, when they use my funds to justify laws that are not within their perview or scope of authority it leaves me less options, that makes me less free. This is the human nature argument.
    I think you are quite accurately detailing one aspect of human nature. Personally, I think human nature is a duality as people both desire freedom and safety in differing degrees depending on the circumstance.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't want a baby Europe and neither would most Americans, hell, Europeans are starting to hate the Eurosocialist model, they usually hated it to begin with but accepted it, austerity is dying as we speak.
    I am sure you don't. Also, while some countries in Europe are going with austerity measures (and some are not), I see no evidence that the people who live there hate the model.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    And with good reason, why should those gaining power stop taking? Unless they are stopped, held accountable, and ultimately prosecuted. Perfect examples, the hijacking of industries by the D.C. crowd, the financial bill which seems more like a pirate raid than a reform bill, that damned health bill, gun control, etc. The more power they get the faster they grab.
    This is why I support automatic sunsets for all laws. Right now our government is set up in a way that creating things is easy, but shutting them down is hard. To me, this is a failure of government more than it is a failure of anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    People are waking up, I think November will decide the path for a couple of decades minimum, but I don't see this country going socialist.
    As soon as people get jobs and some comfort, they will "go back to sleep" as again, as is human nature.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Of course, not EVERY liberal is anti-gun - but in general, they are, and as a whole, the anti-gun side is populated by liberals.
    Yes, liberals are generally more in favor of restriction on owning firearms, but it's the "rabid" part that is a fabrication. Saying "Yeah, registering guns is a good idea we should make people register their guns" is not the same as LIBERALS WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS BECAUSE THEY HATE FREEDOM.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I think you are quite accurately detailing one aspect of human nature. Personally, I think human nature is a duality as people both desire freedom and safety in differing degrees depending on the circumstance.
    Not to get too far into that as I believe you are proven right here just by the emotional rhetorical devices used to get inane laws passed for "safety". Ben Franklin had possibly the best quote in that department.



    I am sure you don't. Also, while some countries in Europe are going with austerity measures (and some are not), I see no evidence that the people who live there hate the model.
    Depends on which side of it they are on I guess, the productive I've spoken with hate it, of course public sector are going to love it, but the governments themselves are starting to make cuts, and those getting the perks are starting to do the typical complaining, and in Greece's case, rioting.



    This is why I support automatic sunsets for all laws. Right now our government is set up in a way that creating things is easy, but shutting them down is hard. To me, this is a failure of government more than it is a failure of anything else.
    I agree here to an extent, except for those things that are proven to work, such as the BOR, and the more appropriate amendments of the constitution such as the 14th, 19th.....etc. Budgets should always have a sunset, taxes, policies. No argument here.


    As soon as people get jobs and some comfort, they will "go back to sleep" as again, as is human nature.
    Unfortunately, I think you are correct here, which is a harsh reality of our society, things have gotten so easy that people no longer think of what can or may happen, only what is and who is "responsible" for it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes, liberals are generally more in favor of restriction on owning firearms, but it's the "rabid" part that is a fabrication.
    Only for some. For others, it is quite accurate.

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