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Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    To be fair, I have never been in a position where my life was threatened by a deadly weapon. I will reserve the right to change this opinion if circumstances change.
    I find the phrase "luck favors the prepared" comes in handy more often the older I get. I have had a knife pulled on me before, took a wound blocking it but outcome was better than it could have been. There have been a few instances that I was unarmed and really wished at that point in time I had my sidearm with me, this is all after taking the proper steps to not be in areas known for those types of things happening. So, I'm always glad to hear that others haven't had that level of bad luck, but it does happen. Again, I won't try to persuade someone to own if they don't see fit, though I do personally think it's a good idea.


    I hope I am correct too, but I see the US Government as a very robust entity, not easily changed. Especially the military, given its tradition and culture.
    My opinion is that the only way to shrink the government is in intelligently applied baby steps, it took a bit over 100 years for it to get this way so it can't just be erased, but something's gotta be done sooner or later.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    One of the things that I always find interesting about conservatives in their view of the constitution is that they feel that their views are the only relevent ones. It always seems to be a matter of "this interpretation is obvious to me, so its right" without any real discussion of the merits and relevence of each type of interpretation. Its almost as if they feel their view is the default position and everything else is a blatent and obvious lie. Personally, I think its tunnel vision on the matter.
    This is where you are always dead wrong. It's not our view that we think is the only view, but those of the Founders, and the legislatures that ratified the body and amendments of the Constitution. Nope, not our views, but theirs. It is you that wants to use your own views.
    Last edited by American; 06-28-10 at 02:33 PM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    My opinion is that the only way to shrink the government is in intelligently applied baby steps, it took a bit over 100 years for it to get this way so it can't just be erased, but something's gotta be done sooner or later.
    I was speaking in terms of a despotism, similar to the roman republic becoming the roman empire, not gradual change that has more to do with our society being a mature one than a new one.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This is where you are always dead wrong. It's not our view that we think is the only view, but those of the Founders, and the legislatures that passed the body and amendments of the Constitution. Nope, not our views, but theirs. It is you that wants to use your own views.
    Thank you for illustrating my point.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Thank you for illustrating my point.
    Nice try, but EPIC FAIL.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Nice try, but EPIC FAIL.
    No, I think the wholesale categorical rejection of a different view on the constitution because "you want to use your own views" is a great illustration as they are really the same thing. People have a view, they want to apply it and thats all there is. At least this is how I see it. Obviously, you feel differently.

    Personally, I don't care what your particular view is or why it is, its the closed mindedness about it that bothers me.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-28-10 at 02:37 PM.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    No, I think the wholesale categorical rejection of a different view on the constitution because "you want to use your own views" is a great illustration as they are really the same thing. People have a view, they want to apply it and thats all there is.
    Nice try, but you want to interpret the Constitution the way you see fit....and not according to those that authored it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I was speaking in terms of a despotism, similar to the roman republic becoming the roman empire, not gradual change that has more to do with our society being a mature one than a new one.
    Fair enough, while I don't think we are in danger of becoming an empire or despotic regime at this point in time I also disagree that we are exempt from certain levels of soft tyranny. For instance there are constant populist attacks and many leading the charge are willing to completely ignore the constitution to do whatever they feel is the correct path, and there is an encroaching nanny state movement that is slowly eating away at our rights and liberties but increasing momentum at a frightening pace, these things must be reversed because the outcome is an America we won't recognize, I want those people scared and reminded of their place.............away from legislation.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Nice try, but you want to interpret the Constitution the way you see fit....and not according to those that authored it.
    I will try one more time. The way I see it, your two statements essentially amount to the same thing. You have a view and interpretation, largely informed by the FFs, which is great. I am glad you have an interest in the subject as an interest in these things makes people a better informed citizen. But in the end, its just an interpretation among several.

    If you don't understand my point, its fine.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Fair enough, while I don't think we are in danger of becoming an empire or despotic regime at this point in time I also disagree that we are exempt from certain levels of soft tyranny. For instance there are constant populist attacks and many leading the charge are willing to completely ignore the constitution to do whatever they feel is the correct path, and there is an encroaching nanny state movement that is slowly eating away at our rights and liberties but increasing momentum at a frightening pace, these things must be reversed because the outcome is an America we won't recognize, I want those people scared and reminded of their place.............away from legislation.
    The way I see it is that human nature will always attempt (in aggregate) to find a balance between ideal freedom and ideal safety and ultimately is largely reactive to events instead of proactive. If I put words into your mouth, I apologize, but I think what you see as society becoming socialist and unfree is what I see as society finding its own balance as human nature dictates. I think the ultimate end result to this process will largely resemble europe and be a social democracy and not something akin to a communist state. I see a lot of fears of socialism expressed here, and coupled with those fears, I tend to see people using the slippery slope argument, thinking that this thing will never stop. And in a sense, I don't think it will, as people react to changing circumstance and technology, but I think it will end up bouncing around some center point than it would be going full communist.

    Again, I am making a lot of assumptions here about what may be your views, I am not attempting to set up a straw man but give an honest summary of what I have read here. If I am inaccurate, I apologize.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-28-10 at 02:49 PM.

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