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Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Yet the wording is "to keep and bear arms", not "to carry and possess"; the focus is less on just having guns, as covered by "keep", but the necessity to use arms in defense of a free State. Hence "to bear". Additionally, to bear itself has within its definition the functional use of the object. Thus to bear arms carries with in it the functional use of arms, or to fight. Thomas Jefferson envisioned revolution as a proper tool of the People to keep the government in check. Or do away with it completely should it grow too offensive to the natural rights and liberties of the People. Everything about the 2nd amendment is in defense of a free State, which means that one must be allowed to use their guns, not just keep them. It's because of this necessity of defense that the right of the People to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon.

    As for natural rights, I have a hard time understanding how people can completely reject them. But because of that difference, we will indeed have fundamental differences which are irreconcilable in regards to the Constitution and the few example rights it had listed.

    And it's fine if you want to label what I said as "originalist", but I personally make no claims to originalist. Much of what I call for may line up best with that line of thought, but the goal is expanding the freedoms and liberties of the People which may not line up with strict "originalist" arguments. I lay claim to minarchism as there is a necessity for government and some things it can do well to benefit the People; however, it is very easy to get too much government and too much government is contrary to the purpose thereof. Thus you either control it or destroy it. Though to clarify, the destroying isn't an endorsement of anarchy as anarchy doesn't work. But rather it is the right of the People to construct for themselves a government which best meets their needs and upholds their rights and liberties.
    Last edited by Ikari; 07-06-10 at 06:45 PM.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And according to the information I have read, it is ambiguous. The common usage was "to carry and possess"... yes, from the 18th Century. I'll post the link to my information, later... I don't have the link at work, and I don't have a whole lot of time to look for it.

    ?



    I would interpret that as being an originalist. And I agree that we can learn a lot about philosophy from the founders; I enjoy reading the Federaist Papers (I know... weird) and some of their discussions, but, so you know, I completely reject the concept of natural rights, so, I would imagine that you and I are going to have an impossible time agreeing on certain aspects of the Constitution.
    How about inalienable rights Cap? Do you believe in them? Or, are they the same as natural rights? advocate

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    How about inalienable rights Cap? Do you believe in them? Or, are they the same as natural rights? advocate
    an interesting question but it really doesn't matter since it is undeniable those who wrote the constitution and founded this nation believed in them and that is the grand assumption upon which our system of laws is based



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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    How about inalienable rights Cap? Do you believe in them? Or, are they the same as natural rights? advocate
    Inalienable rights and natural rights are synonymous. There is no evidence that we are born with any rights. We are born with instincts, and grow to have desires. Unless someone can point out the gene that indicates that we have a "right" to free speech or a "right" to bear arms, ain't no way anyone is going to convince me otherwise. This is the one thing the founders completely missed the boat on. Or, what I actually believe is that they used this very strong terminology/philosophy both to indicate to England the seriousness of what they were doing, and to prevent tyranny from once again corrupting this nation.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Why would Gore not concede? Why should he concede. Do you know the definition of "concede"? That should answer your question.

    You pick one word and focus on that to render an out of context interpretation of what I was saying. In Fl, it was proposed that the entire state be recounted, and the Gore campaign not only said no to this but fought against it. Why?


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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Inalienable rights and natural rights are synonymous. There is no evidence that we are born with any rights. We are born with instincts, and grow to have desires. Unless someone can point out the gene that indicates that we have a "right" to free speech or a "right" to bear arms, ain't no way anyone is going to convince me otherwise. This is the one thing the founders completely missed the boat on. Or, what I actually believe is that they used this very strong terminology/philosophy both to indicate to England the seriousness of what they were doing, and to prevent tyranny from once again corrupting this nation.

    So you think it was bluster, and language to prevent tyranny here, right? Well, if you are on the side that believes that rights are only that which is extended by government, like Obama does, then how is that not tyranny?


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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you think it was bluster, and language to prevent tyranny here, right? Well, if you are on the side that believes that rights are only that which is extended by government, like Obama does, then how is that not tyranny? j-mac
    You have to love the gall some people have.

    To suggest the government grants us or gives us the right to keep and bear arms,....

    A right that we have in the event that we (the people) may have to use them (arms) AGAINST that very government should it ever become tyrannical,....

    BUT! (sic) they actually believe that same government has the right to regulate the USE of the weapons it allows for "the people" to have and to protect themselves with,..... against THAT same government that (in their opinion) gave them the right.

    OH my gawd.

    How do we reason with someone that far gone?
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 07-07-10 at 10:16 AM.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    You have to love the gall some people have.

    To suggest the government grants us or gives us the right to keep and bear arms,.... in the event that we (the people) may have to use them AGAINST that government,.... but (sic) that same government has the right to regulate the USE of the weapons it allows for people to protect themselves against THAT same government,.....

    OH my gawd.

    How do we reason with someone that far gone?

    It's fast approaching the point where you don't.


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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It's fast approaching the point where you don't.

    j-mac
    I've never seen anything like it.

    I can't even imagine a fitting analogy to explain the holes in their logic.

    What good does it do,... to have the right to keep and bear arms against a government that has the right to regulate your use of those arms?

    It's like saying you have the right to defend yourself against me,.... but I have the final say in how you do it.

    It's insane.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You pick one word and focus on that to render an out of context interpretation of what I was saying. In Fl, it was proposed that the entire state be recounted, and the Gore campaign not only said no to this but fought against it. Why?


    j-mac
    Why? Why not?

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