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Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

  1. #541
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Turtle, the Black Knight in this situation is you. Despite never advancing a single argument based on fact, nor being able to defeat a single fact-based argument of CC's, you continue to claim victory. It amazes me how intelligent people can be in such deep denial in the face of facts and argument that undermine their worldview, but I suppose it shouldn't. I mean, I understand where you're coming from, you can't give up absolute gun rights and you can't give up orginalism, so in the face of incontrovertible facts that the two are incompatible, I guess it's either denial or head asplode.
    1) you have been called out by other posters as being a troll or someone who wants to play games

    2) I know more about this topic than you will ever be able to learn-indeed I forget more about this topic than you will ever know

    3) I wasn't replying to you with the Monty Python article. The person it was directed to was smart enough to figure that out
    maybe that is why he is King and you are covered in poop

    4) you have posted absolutely no facts and others have noted that as well

    5) You fail to understand that the reason I claim there is "absolute gun rights" as you call it (incorrectly-I have consistently noted that use restrictions are clearly constitutional at a state level) is not due to what the second amendment means or was intended to mean but rather because of the tenth amendment and the fact that the founders never delegated any such power to the federal government

    6) you fail to set forth what you actually believe -=rather like many trolls or rope a dope contrarians you pick at what others say but refuse to take a stand that you would have to defend

    7) you obviously have no academic training or credentials in this area.



  2. #542
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How about the fact that the original definition of "to bear" as a verb includes the fundamental usuage of whatever is being borne? It doesn't mean just "to hold", otherwise it would be "To keep and hold...". To bear as the verb it is being used as includes the functional use of whatever tool, in this case arms, is being borne.
    This has been discussed already, actually I think you're the one who quoted the article that addressed this. "Keep and bear arms" was a legal term of art, like "cease and desist," that referred only to the use of arms for military service and did not encompass the common meaning of the words "keep" or "bear" as used separately.

  3. #543
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    This has been discussed already, actually I think you're the one who quoted the article that addressed this. "Keep and bear arms" was a legal term of art, like "cease and desist," that referred only to the use of arms for military service and did not encompass the common meaning of the words "keep" or "bear" as used separately.
    Yes, and as previously discussed it was to demonstrate the defined use of "to bear", not whether or not historically the 2nd was purely in terms of military exercise. This is because currently, the 2nd is noted as an individual right not limited to military service. As such, the only subject which had current bearing was the use of "to bear". And it doesn't matter anyway as even if it is in relation only to that of a militia, I reserve the right to join a militia and participate in its activities at my leisure. Thus you may not infringe upon my right to keep and bear arms.
    Last edited by Ikari; 07-05-10 at 06:05 PM.
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  4. #544
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Actually, dueling was never considered a right and has been a crime at common law since long before the American Revolution. It was certainly popular around the revolutionary era, of course, but there were numerous legal attempts to suppress it, and as far as I can tell it was never authorized under the law. Check out this article for a really fascinating history of dueling: SSRN-The End of the Affair? Anti-Dueling Laws and Social Norms in Antebellum America by Harwell Wells
    That was interesting. It sort of reminds me of the illegal immigration laws that have been made by the feds that they do not enforce,

    which begs the question, why make laws that are not enforced?

  5. #545
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Despite never advancing a single argument based on fact....
    Speaking of which.... still waiting for those quotes that support your position.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Gladly: The Second Amendment protects a right to keep and bear arms, as discussed earlier this is a legal term of art that refers exclusively to military service and furthermore this is tied explicitly to the militia use, it does not protect any other use
    You have have, thus far, shown nothing to support this claim.

    There is no original intent for a second amendment right to absolute possession and use of guns, only for the militia use
    .
    it is impossible for you to support this claim.

    The Second Amendment doesn't deny the right to use guns for self-defense, hunting, etc, it just doesn't recognize it
    Again, it is impossible for you to support this claim.

    Why do you keep making a claim that you know you cannot support?

  7. #547
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    fortunately, CC doesn't abuse power like that

    Many boards I have been on-when you crush a mod, they ban you. A board I once was a mod on was owned by a cowardly schmuck and he got cyber-castrated by a lady poster and he then banned her. I unsubscribed immediately. Fortunately, I haven't seen that sort of abuse here
    Thank you. Very true.
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    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    What are you, Three?
    See, this is an excellent example of what you do. You make an obnoxious comment, and then when responded to in kind, you whine. If I acted 3, then so did you. How about NOT acting 3 and NOT whining when it gets thrown back at you. Might be a novel approach.

    You were wrong to dismiss the relevance and the significance of the 9th and 10th Amendments.
    No, I wasn't. They do not apply to my argument, so they are dismissed as part of it.

    Most people would likely agree with me that you are trying to use the wording of the 2nd. Amendment to deny aspects of the right (use),... simply because those aspects were not specifically written in the amendment (keep and bear).
    Who cares what MOST people agree to. What is written is what is written. MOST people used to think the world was flat, too.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #549
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Show some integrity and admit someone has made a point worthy of this ****ing forum once in a while or step the **** down as a wannabe god-damned admin.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Consider yourself lucky.
    Moderator's Warning:
    Justices extend gun owner rights nationwideHere's a great idea for the two of you. Do not attack moderation or moderators publicly and you will avoid consequences... like a 6A violation if either of you do this again. I hope that is clear enough for the two of you.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #550
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    We are supposed to 'interpret' the Constitution.
    Congratulations. We now have a winner in the game, "let's see if there is a hole in CC's argument." This is the only one that is there. So, either you are an originalist, and take the 2nd as it is stated... usage can be regulated, or you interpret the Constitution and become a hypocrite if you argue against interpretation in other ways. Now, that does not mean that you must agree with how things are interpreted, but unless you want to be a losing contestant on DP's favorite game show, Hypocrisy Check!, you must remember that since you have interpreted, there is nothing wrong with interpretation. In fact, by commenting that the "Necessary and Proper Clause" is "invulnerable" in Federalist 44, Madison states that it would be impossible to list all rights that take into consideration all of the nation's present and future concerns. Hamilton, of course, also believed in the evolutionary process of the Constitution. See, Chuz, this is why your 9th and 10th Amendment arguments fail. Both Madison, the author of the Constitution, and Hamilton, the foremost defender of the Constitution in the Federalist Papers agree with me... and with YOU, in the fact that Constitutional interpretation was an edict by the founding fathers.

    So, as I said, you can be a staunch originalist, and agree with my position, or agree that some degree of Constitutional interpretation is valid, and prove my position wrong... but... then you would need to be careful about integrity when arguing Constitutional issues. Oh, and just as a side note. By poking this hole in my position, you allow me to demonstrate that the government can regulate gun usage in other ways, through Constitutional interpretation.

    Now, what have we learned here? We have learned that EVERYONE interprets the Constitution. EVERYONE. They do it to different degrees and to suit their own positions. NO ONE is true originalist. If you are, then you must agree with my position.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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