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Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

  1. #531
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    fortunately, CC doesn't abuse power like that

    Many boards I have been on-when you crush a mod, they ban you. A board I once was a mod on was owned by a cowardly schmuck and he got cyber-castrated by a lady poster and he then banned her. I unsubscribed immediately. Fortunately, I haven't seen that sort of abuse here
    Consider yourself lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Gladly: The Second Amendment protects a right to keep and bear arms, as discussed earlier this is a legal term of art that refers exclusively to military service, and furthermore this is tied explicitly to the militia use, it does not protect any other use. When it was incorporated against the States, on an originalist reading this carried over to protect only the right to keep and bear arms for militia use as against the states. There is no original intent for a second amendment right to absolute possession and use of guns, only for the militia use. Anything more expansive than this is interpretivism. The 9th and 10th amendments don't support your positions, quite the contrary. The Second Amendment doesn't deny the right to use guns for self-defense, hunting, etc, it just doesn't recognize it. On an originalist reading, the right to regulate these aspects of gun ownership is left to the states, and with the expansion of the commerce clause the federal government as well.
    So by your reading, all one would do would be to join a militia and the right would be enforced.
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-05-10 at 02:05 PM.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The Second Amendment protects a right to keep and bear arms, as discussed earlier this is a legal term of art that refers exclusively to military service, and furthermore this is tied explicitly to the militia use, it does not protect any other use.
    From here on you base your argument on the false premise that the 2nd Amendment "right to keep and bear" is the ONLY right to keep and bear.

    When in fact, the right to keep and bear arms pre-dates the Constitution.

    Where did the founders (for example) get the right to take up arms (including CANNONS) against the King and declare our independence?

    The Constitution wasn't even contemplated at that time.

    The 2nd Amendment is nothing more than an expansion of, and a clarification of one aspect of a right that existed for centuries before the amendment was penned.

    You also ignore things like States Constitutions which declare the "militia" as being "ALL persons over the age of 17,... etc"

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    rolleyes Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Exactly! So I can assume you support a Constitutional right to privacy as decided in Roe v. Wade? After all, by this statement you just committed yourself to this position.


    Say good night, Johnboy.

    /ignore

  4. #534
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    /ignore
    Ignoring facts seems like your modus operandi, so why stop now?

  5. #535
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    When someone takes a position that is clearly lacking in substance, and holds to it despite plentiful evidence to the contrary, sensible people eventually get tired of beating their head against a brick wall.

    Doesn't make you right.
    Doesn't make me wrong, either. There gas been no evidence YET presented that I have not refuted. My position is completely logical from a literal position on the Constitution. Now, if you want to go with an original intent argument, I can refute that, too, demonstrating that the founders differed in their position in the Constitution as a whole.

    So, THUS FAR, I haven't seen anything that demonstrates an error in my position. The larger question, though is this. I agree fully in the right ti posses an carry weapons should no be infringed. I also state that the government has the right to regulate usage. In general, this is the position held by this who would be classified as "pro-gun". Why, then, are you all having a problem with my argument?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Yes, but you forget. CC is da judge here and his gavel has landed.
    Only when it comes to moderation, not debate. There MIGHT be a way to pokeva hole in my argument, but if there us, no one has found it yet.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #537
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So, THUS FAR, I haven't seen anything that demonstrates an error in my position. The larger question, though is this. I agree fully in the right ti posses an carry weapons should no be infringed. I also state that the government has the right to regulate usage. In general, this is the position held by this who would be classified as "pro-gun". Why, then, are you all having a problem with my argument?
    It's because they've pegged themselves to "originalism" or "textualism," to the point where they cannot accept that fact that those philosophies cannot honestly support the pro-gun agenda. I'm pro-gun as well, and personally I'd like to see the issue addressed honestly to provide a solid foundation for gun rights. But there is a certain element of the pro-gun side, as evinced by Goshin, tex, Turtle, goobie, etc, that has reviled interpretivism from the left-wing to the point that they are in deep denial and cannot accept their own interpretivism. Let's not kid ourselves, these are classic denial symptoms here, there isn't even an attempt at logical argument, and the responses to your point have consisted of little more than "you're wrong because I said so."

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Dueling was a tradition in this country even before the constitution was written. This sort of leads me to believe that the framers believed in the right to bear arms. How could anyone duel without arms (no pun intended)?

    Duel! | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine

    We no longer have the right to duel. Should we have had a constitutional amendment to prevent dueling?

  9. #539
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So, THUS FAR, I haven't seen anything that demonstrates an error in my position.
    How about the fact that the original definition of "to bear" as a verb includes the fundamental usuage of whatever is being borne? It doesn't mean just "to hold", otherwise it would be "To keep and hold...". To bear as the verb it is being used as includes the functional use of whatever tool, in this case arms, is being borne.
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  10. #540
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Dueling was a tradition in this country even before the constitution was written. This sort of leads me to believe that the framers believed in the right to bear arms.
    [...]
    We no longer have the right to duel. Should we have had a constitutional amendment to prevent dueling?
    Actually, dueling was never considered a right and has been a crime at common law since long before the American Revolution. It was certainly popular around the revolutionary era, of course, but there were numerous legal attempts to suppress it, and as far as I can tell it was never authorized under the law. Check out this article for a really fascinating history of dueling: SSRN-The End of the Affair? Anti-Dueling Laws and Social Norms in Antebellum America by Harwell Wells

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