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Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

  1. #241
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Those who wrote about arms who also were influential on the creation of the constitution clearly assumed it was a natural right
    That's not the same as including it in the Constitution, now is it? What you dismiss as "mental masturbation" is really a very important issue of jurisprudence.

    you claimed that many founders did not believe that and I asked you to provide sources
    The Tench Coxe quotation is the first one I could find, there are numerous others. The only fair reading indicates that the militia use is the only use sanctioned under the original meaning of the second amendment, not self defense, although a weak argument can be made for self defense by appealing to some quotes from Jefferson, these are just as quickly rebutted by the number of times the Framers discussed the amendment without any talk of this right at all.

    You say attempts to limit it to specific uses are specious, but now you're being silly. The second amendment doesn't protect the right to use a gun to rob a bank, now does it? Nor does it protect the right of ex-convicts to own guns. How can you honestly argue that is does not protect specific uses?

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That's not the same as including it in the Constitution, now is it? What you dismiss as "mental masturbation" is really a very important issue of jurisprudence.



    The Tench Coxe quotation is the first one I could find, there are numerous others. The only fair reading indicates that the militia use is the only use sanctioned under the original meaning of the second amendment, not self defense, although a weak argument can be made for self defense by appealing to some quotes from Jefferson, these are just as quickly rebutted by the number of times the Framers discussed the amendment without any talk of this right at all.

    You say attempts to limit it to specific uses are specious, but now you're being silly. The second amendment doesn't protect the right to use a gun to rob a bank, now does it? Nor does it protect the right of ex-convicts to own guns. How can you honestly argue that is does not protect specific uses?

    find those quotes. As I said, I have lectured on this subject, I have written on it and I know the subject. You confuse use with possession which is a normal mistake of many politicians. Life liberty and property (all rights) can be deprived through due process

    you are now engaged in mental masturbation. I will retire and avoid the sticky mess
    Last edited by TurtleDude; 06-29-10 at 10:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are no engaged in mental masturbation. I will retire and avoid the sticky mess
    Very funny. I'd argue that you're engage in an oversimplification that is motivated by an agenda. Why don't you show me some quotations where the Framers do acknowledge that the second amendment protects an individual right to self defense. And how about hunting and sport? I admit there is a case for self defense, but I think it is weak. But you're being completely dishonest if you're trying to make a case for hunting and sport uses.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Very funny. I'd argue that you're engage in an oversimplification that is motivated by an agenda. Why don't you show me some quotations where the Framers do acknowledge that the second amendment protects an individual right to self defense. And how about hunting and sport? I admit there is a case for self defense, but I think it is weak. But you're being completely dishonest if you're trying to make a case for hunting and sport uses.
    last time

    the founders assumed that individual citiizens had an inalienable right to keep and bear arms

    period
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    last time

    the founders assumed that individual citiizens had an inalienable right to keep and bear arms

    period
    Ah, no quotations, how convenient. Have a nice night.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    As I said, I have lectured on this subject, I have written on it and I know the subject.


    It was the first image that popped into my head when you said: "I have lectured on this subject"

    Watching far-righties trying to bull**** their way through a thread is funny...

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    It was the first image that popped into my head when you said: "I have lectured on this subject"

    Watching far-righties trying to bull**** their way through a thread is funny...
    I'm not sure what that picture is from, but I was thinking something similar to this myself. I have no reason not to take TurtleDude at his word that he "has lectured on it" but I really became dubious when he started to refer to a nuanced understanding of original intent as "masturbation." I suspect his argument is derived more from gun magazine opinion pieces than legal scholarship.

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    How does one "interpret" "shall not be infringed" to me "a little infringement is ok"?
    Point out where my comment was specifically about the 2nd Amendment.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    As is what you said in your post, that I responded to. What's your point?
    Good. We agree.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I agree. In Ohio, for example:
    -You dont need a license to own a car.
    -You dont need to register a car to own it.
    -You do not need a license to drive a car on private property
    -You do not need to register a car to drive it on private property
    -You do not need a license to transport a car on public property
    -You do not need to register a car to trasnport it on public property
    -You only need a license to drive on public property
    -You only need to register a car if you will drve it on public property.
    I said nothing about owning a car. I said driving. In order to drive, legally, in Ohio, what are the rules, Goobie?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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