Page 23 of 64 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 230 of 631

Thread: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

  1. #221
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,606

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The top one is older, that's it.

    Functionally they are the exact same, bullet caliber is nearly identical but that makes no difference as far as the law is concerned.
    curio and relic license-50 years old I believe is the line



  2. #222
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,606

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    agreed...
    its much harder to get a driving liscense than to legally purchase a gun.
    we should only need to sign our name, give the current address and wait a week before getting to legally drive.
    driving is not a fundamental right

    many libs say guns should be treated like cars

    great idea

    my driver's license was obtained when I turned 16

    It is good in all fifty states and many other nations

    I don't need a license to buy a car

    I don't need a license to operate a car on private property

    There is no limit to how fast my car is capable of going or how many cars I own

    I can own the same cars that police own-indeed I can own cars far more powerful than police cars

    I can drive my car in any state



  3. #223
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,606

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The trouble is that is isn't clear. It's actually very vague. There is a reason it took over two hundred years for the individual right to bear arms to come into existence. It's because reasonable people can disagree. A much better historical understanding of the 2nd Amendment is that it protects the collective right to bear arms. In order to provide for an effective militia, it is entirely reasonable to have laws that restrict personal gun ownership, for instance what if the state militia required all guns be kept in a militia storage facility for better access in time of war?

    I have no problem with an individual right to keep and bear arms. But I do have a problem with hypocritical Justices who claim to want to follow the "original meaning" if the Constitution, but make decision like this that are flagrantly activist. If you want to interpret the 2nd Amendment as a living and growing thing, that's great. But Scalia, Thomas, Alito, they're all violating their expressed judicial philosophy in this and the DC v. Heller decision. It's hypocrisy plain and simple.
    You are wrong -it is an individual right or the founders would not have generated so many documents indicating as such

    but lets suppose you are right

    tell me where the federal government gets the power delegated to it to regulate small arms



  4. #224
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Don't think I mentioned voting.... but since you ask, I believe that if we let them out of prison, that all their rights as a citizen should be restored.

    If we don't figure we can safely do so, don't let them out.

    I would prefer to see crimes like carjacking, forcible rape, armed robbery, and attempted murder carry life-without-parole sentences. Basically anything that involves the threat of death to innocent citizens and indicates a individual who is utterly careless of other's rights and lives.
    I just wanted to make sure. You know many states don't allow them to vote, despite fulfilling their time.

    As long as you're consistent, I'm cool with your opinion.

  5. #225
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You are wrong -it is an individual right or the founders would not have generated so many documents indicating as such
    They've also generated an equal number of documents indicating the opposite. The commentary of the founders is only one part of determining the original meaning of the Constitution. I will have more on this by tomorrow so please bear with me Turtle.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but lets suppose you are right

    tell me where the federal government gets the power delegated to it to regulate small arms
    Well, they would have the commerce clause authority to regulate guns traveling across state lines. Apart from that I would say that they haven't got any delegated power to regulate small arms, on an originalist reading, and guns that stay within the state are for the state to regulate as they see fit.

  6. #226
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,606

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    They've also generated an equal number of documents indicating the opposite. The commentary of the founders is only one part of determining the original meaning of the Constitution. I will have more on this by tomorrow so please bear with me Turtle.



    Well, they would have the commerce clause authority to regulate guns traveling across state lines. Apart from that I would say that they haven't got any delegated power to regulate small arms, on an originalist reading, and guns that stay within the state are for the state to regulate as they see fit.
    LOL that is funny. It was FDR's admnistration that stretched the commerce clause beyond all recognition. But do me a favor-find me all those documents that indicate the founders did not think the individual citizens had an inalienable right to keep and bear arms. I have researched this issue for more than 30 years, lectured several ABA law school bodies on the second amendment and I have yet to come across an "equal body" of contrary documents to the well known statements that pro gun scholars constantly post on the subject.



  7. #227
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    LOL that is funny. It was FDR's admnistration that stretched the commerce clause beyond all recognition. But do me a favor-find me all those documents that indicate the founders did not think the individual citizens had an inalienable right to keep and bear arms. I have researched this issue for more than 30 years, lectured several ABA law school bodies on the second amendment and I have yet to come across an "equal body" of contrary documents to the well known statements that pro gun scholars constantly post on the subject.
    Thanks, I am working on it at the moment. When I say "equal body" I could be mistaken about that. Hang on a second and I'll get some of the quotations I am looking at right now. I'd love to pick you brain about this.

  8. #228
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,606

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Thanks, I am working on it at the moment. When I say "equal body" I could be mistaken about that. Hang on a second and I'll get some of the quotations I am looking at right now. I'd love to pick you brain about this.
    The best counter argument to the individual rights (the standard model) paradigm is not the pathetic "states rights" nonsense that the Brady Bunch and many racist judges (who didn't want blacks or "Papists" having handguns) concocted but rather the one brilliant and liberal Yale Law Professor Akhil Reed Amar came up with

    he noted it is an individual right that is exercised collectively-such as voting or more importantly, serving on a jury/ However he has conceded that in order to exercise the right in a collective militia action, people had to be able to own and train with guns but only their collective use was protected by the amendment Yet he cannot point to a proper federal delegation of power that would allow federal regulation

    Anti Gun funded Ohio State Historian Saul Cornell (his center on gun issues is funded by the Joyce Foundation) tries to make a hybrid argument as well

    unlike Amar who is intellectually honest, Cornell starts off with "how do I justify gun bans" and works backwards in an attempt to undercut the clear intent of the second.



  9. #229
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    They've also generated an equal number of documents indicating the opposite. The commentary of the founders is only one part of determining the original meaning of the Constitution. I will have more on this by tomorrow so please bear with me Turtle.



    Well, they would have the commerce clause authority to regulate guns traveling across state lines. Apart from that I would say that they haven't got any delegated power to regulate small arms, on an originalist reading, and guns that stay within the state are for the state to regulate as they see fit.
    Seeing how the right to keep and bear arms is a individual right and the government has not business infringing on that right then the commerce clause is irrelevant regarding the 2nd amendment.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #230
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have yet to come across an "equal body" of contrary documents to the well known statements that pro gun scholars constantly post on the subject.
    Ok, here's one:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tench Coxe
    As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.
    He makes no mention of the right extending to self defense or hunting/sport. What do you make of it?
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 06-29-10 at 11:04 PM.

Page 23 of 64 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •