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Thread: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

  1. #171
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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    In case there are still any doubters as to whether or not General McChrystal created the ROE or not, heres sworn testimony that General McChrystal was not told what ROE to create by anyone else:

    McChrystal “didn’t get the rules of engagement” or troops he wanted? « The Liberty Tree

    But wait, that’s not all, McChrystal also agreed with a U.S. senator’s statement that he was not “directed” to implement rules of engagement. During a 9 Dec 09, Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, GEN McChrystal was asked by Senator Jack Reed (D-RI), “General McChrystal, the rules of engagement within Afghanistan emphasize minimizing civilian casualties. That was a point you made when you took over, and Admiral Mullen made the same point yesterday at Camp Lejeune.

    “That is based, I think — and let — I don’t want to be presumptuous, but my understanding is based on your experience, your understanding of counterinsurgency warfare, the experience of the — the Soviets before us that it’s not — that you are not directed to do that by anyone, is that correct?”

    And, oh snap, guess what the General answered? “That — that is correct, Senator.
    I did, before I deployed out, watch the situation going on. So I had formed opinions but got no specific direction."

    The important part of the statement is, “So I had formed opinions but got no specific direction.” He was given no “specific direction” regarding the rules of engagement (ROE) in Afghanistan. HE WAS GIVEN NO “SPECIFIC DIRECTION” REGARDING THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT IN AFGHANISTAN! So Rush, who has
    never spent a single day in uniform, needs to remember that when he – or his ditto-heads – try to blame the ROE on President Obama.
    These are the General's own words under oath stating that NO ONE TOLD HIM WHAT ROE TO CREATE. You guys are ridiculous, you have no evidence stating that the President created these ROE's, yet you make up claims which are not true and still want to doubt and doubt.

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So the countries whose soldiers have to follow this have no say?
    I'm sorry, but you're not following. The countries need to approve the new ROE as well given by the ISAF commander. It's in the original article, how Canada needed to approve them first: New Rules of Engagement issued to NATO Forces by Gen McChrystal | NowPublic News Coverage
    These are not ROEs for the entire NATO, but specifically the ROEs for the NATO ISAF mission, I believe.

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The commander in chief is still resposible for the conduct and rules of the military
    The Commander in Chief is responsible for how the military campaign is going. The Commander in Chief outlines the mission to the military, and its the military's job to carry out the mission. It is not the Commander in Chief's responsibility to dictate how the military carries out that mission, nor interfere with details and the inner workings of the military when they carry out this mission. The Commander in Chief has general responsibility for the entire mission, but in the military, I believe people do not interfere with people's commands even if they are subordinates, unless necessary. The Commander in Chief has responsibility for how McChrystal is doing, but any operations or military commands are the responsibility of McChrystal, because he is the commander of the operation. That is why Obama has replaced McChrystal with Petraeus now.
    Last edited by Opteron; 06-30-10 at 05:49 PM.

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    In case there are still any doubters as to whether or not General McChrystal created the ROE or not, heres sworn testimony that General McChrystal was not told what ROE to create by anyone else:

    McChrystal “didn’t get the rules of engagement” or troops he wanted? « The Liberty Tree



    These are the General's own words under oath stating that NO ONE TOLD HIM WHAT ROE TO CREATE. You guys are ridiculous, you have no evidence stating that the President created these ROE's, yet you make up claims which are not true and still want to doubt and doubt.
    The president as commander in chief is still responsible for these rules

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    The Commander in Chief is responsible for how the military campaign is going. The Commander in Chief outlines the mission to the military, and its the military's job to carry out the mission. It is not the Commander in Chief's responsibility to dictate how the military carries out that mission, nor interfere with details and the inner workings of the military when they carry out this mission. The Commander in Chief has general responsibility for the entire mission, but in the military, I believe people do not interfere with people's commands even if they are subordinates, unless necessary. The Commander in Chief has responsibility for how McChrystal is doing, but any operations or military commands are the responsibility of McChrystal, because he is the commander of the operation. That is why Obama has replaced McChrystal with Petraeus now.
    The president is resposible for what his commanders do. To say he has no responsibility is like saying a CEO is not responsible for quality of his companies product

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    I'm sorry, but you're not following. The countries need to approve the new ROE as well given by the ISAF commander. It's in the original article, how Canada needed to approve them first: New Rules of Engagement issued to NATO Forces by Gen McChrystal | NowPublic News Coverage
    These are not ROEs for the entire NATO, but specifically the ROEs for the NATO ISAF mission, I believe.
    So countries of NATO have no say only the US says how these forces conduct themselves

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The president is resposible for what his commanders do. To say he has no responsibility is like saying a CEO is not responsible for quality of his companies product
    That's exactly what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    The Commander in Chief is responsible for how the military campaign is going.
    I never said he has no responsibility. The president has blanket responsibility for the war, but does not direct the operations and details of such war. That's the military's job.

    It's like saying the CEO's job is to create the product. It's the engineers job to create the product. The CEO is not an engineer, he does not tell the engineers how to make it. He just tells them what he wants and its the engineer's job to make the product. The CEO is responsible for the end product, is it his job to create the product, no.

    Obama is responsible for the end result of the war, is it his job to create ROEs? No, that's the military's job. Is he responsible for what McChrystal does? Yes, which is why he replaced him with Petraeus. Is it his job to tell McChrystal what to do? No.

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So countries of NATO have no say only the US says how these forces conduct themselves
    I'm not sure you're quite getting how the military works. The countries participating in this NATO operation all fall under the joint-operational control of the ISAF commander. If they don't want to, they don't have to participate, or they can participate alongside the mission, but so far that is not how it is happening. The ISAF commander is not just from the US. It has previously been British, Canadian, and Turkish, and in that case the US has to follow them at that time, I think. I don't know how the ISAF commander is chosen, but whoever he is I'm pretty sure you got to follow orders. The countries of NATO are responsible for their own forces, but they agree to participate under the joint-operational control.

    You can see International Security Assistance Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for more information.
    Last edited by Opteron; 06-30-10 at 06:29 PM.

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    That's exactly what I said.
    I never said he has no responsibility. The president has blanket responsibility for the war, but does not direct the operations and details of such war. That's the military's job.

    It's like saying the CEO's job is to create the product. It's the engineers job to create the product. The CEO is not an engineer, he does not tell the engineers how to make it. He just tells them what he wants and its the engineer's job to make the product. The CEO is responsible for the end product, is it his job to create the product, no.

    Obama is responsible for the end result of the war, is it his job to create ROEs? No, that's the military's job. Is he responsible for what McChrystal does? Yes, which is why he replaced him with Petraeus. Is it his job to tell McChrystal what to do? No.
    The CEO keeps up with progress and authorizes statements and policy and research. These rules went into place because either Obama agreed or he was not doing his job as commander.

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    Re: Petraeus to Modify Afghanistan Rules of Engagement, Source Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The CEO keeps up with progress and authorizes statements and policy and research. These rules went into place because either Obama agreed or he was not doing his job as commander.
    No, you're right. Obama is responsible for the mission. I do fault Obama for putting McChrystal in charge rather than Petraeus in the first place, and allowing the ROE to go into effect. He should have changed commanders when the ROE were put in place. He made a mistake, however he has corrected that mistake by getting rid of McChrystal and putting Petraeus in charge now, which many agree to be a sound decision. He made a mistake, but has chosen a good commander now so hopefully things will be better now.

    But also, this is different than the other posters saying that Obama told McChrystal what ROEs to make. Although Obama is responsible for McChrystal's actions, he didn't tell him what to do like the other guys are saying.

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