Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 75

Thread: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

  1. #61
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Bad policy and the aggregation of individual stupidity was the cause of this crisis. The "invisible hand" worked as expected, it was merely distorted by the government "solutions" to previous financial disasters. Just my opinion, of course.
    I won't disagree that individual stupidity wasn't a cause, in fact the disregard of conservative banking practices by non-CRA mortgages companies contributed to the vast majority. Not to mention the utter stupidity of buying a mortgage backed security without examining the actual underlying assets and the rampant fraud by Moody's and S&P in rating what they absolutely knew to be Cs as As in a corrupt pay for rating system similar to Circa-Enron pay for unqualified audit opinions. There's a large amount of things that went wrong, but arguing that it was just regulation as people like Mr. V has done over and over again is either exceedingly dishonest or expotentially ignorant.

    Care to summarize that 50 page document?

    P.S. - Obvious Child, your posting style is unnecessarily abrasive. Please refrain from insinuating that I'm "effectively ignorant".
    Sorry. I'm rather sick and tired of the large level of people who demonstrate time and time again they have no bloody clue what they hell they are talking about and yet expect to be taken seriously. When you cannot even understand the basic terms, why are you discussing this? But we have more then a few people who think they can. Maybe I should create code system?

    "We've reached level Red of Stupid, pull out your anti-stupid gas filters"
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #62
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I think i have a better idea of what "went down" than you ever will. Try and pay attention to the language we all agreed upon. No bank was forced to make loans to anyone they did not want to. At best, you can make a case that certain lenders were incentive. It does say volumes when we consider the focus of risk management.
    Hey Goldenboy, tell me, if the CRAs was the problem, why did we have over 2 decades of no problems associated with it?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #63
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Since government regulation allegedly was the cause, and I know Mr. V won't dare answer this question for fear of showing his argument to be false,

    What law forced Moody's and S&P to rate repackaged grade C mortgage securities as A's?

    After all, that played a sizable role in the process of securitization which was the real problem. So if regulation was the problem, can someone find me the law that says Moody's and S&P have to rate low grade securities as much more investment worthy?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    07-01-10 @ 02:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    157

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I won't disagree that individual stupidity wasn't a cause, in fact the disregard of conservative banking practices by non-CRA mortgages companies contributed to the vast majority. Not to mention the utter stupidity of buying a mortgage backed security without examining the actual underlying assets and the rampant fraud by Moody's and S&P in rating what they absolutely knew to be Cs as As in a corrupt pay for rating system similar to Circa-Enron pay for unqualified audit opinions. There's a large amount of things that went wrong, but arguing that it was just regulation as people like Mr. V has done over and over again is either exceedingly dishonest or expotentially ignorant.

    Care to summarize that 50 page document?
    He cites four causal factors that lead to the crisis; bad bets, excessive leverage, domino effects, and 21st century bank runs; without all four of these factors, he maintains, the crisis couldn't have unfolded as it did.

    After citing the four causal factors, he outlines five policy areas that impacted these factors; housing policy, capital regulation, industry structure, innovation, and monetary policy. He proceeds to assign each policy area a weight in relation to the aforementioned factors. As an example, housing policy is given a "high weight" in regards to "bad bets", but given "no weight" in regards to "excessive leverage". You can find the complete matrix on page nine.

    I highly recommend you read the entire analysis. It's very informative and well done. The author is Dr. Arnold Kling, formerly the senior economist at Freddie Mac (1986-1994) and an economist on the staff of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve (1980-1986).

    Sorry. I'm rather sick and tired of the large level of people who demonstrate time and time again they have no bloody clue what they hell they are talking about and yet expect to be taken seriously. When you cannot even understand the basic terms, why are you discussing this? But we have more then a few people who think they can. Maybe I should create code system?

    "We've reached level Red of Stupid, pull out your anti-stupid gas filters"
    It's alright, but I don't think there's any reason to automatically assume I'm one of those people simply because I disagree with you.

  5. #65
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    He cites four causal factors that lead to the crisis; bad bets, excessive leverage, domino effects, and 21st century bank runs; without all four of these factors, he maintains, the crisis couldn't have unfolded as it did.

    After citing the four causal factors, he outlines five policy areas that impacted these factors; housing policy, capital regulation, industry structure, innovation, and monetary policy. He proceeds to assign each policy area a weight in relation to the aforementioned factors. As an example, housing policy is given a "high weight" in regards to "bad bets", but given "no weight" in regards to "excessive leverage". You can find the complete matrix on page nine.

    I highly recommend you read the entire analysis. It's very informative and well done. The author is Dr. Arnold Kling, formerly the senior economist at Freddie Mac (1986-1994) and an economist on the staff of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve (1980-1986).
    Will do.

    EDIT: That is a pretty good article. I agree with his take on the Basel Accords, but Basel never truly accounted for a variety of products. Basel does still seem very much stuck in the 1980s and 1990s. Rather a poor model of asset tiers when you don't even cover many assets which could also be liabilities.

    I'm fairly impressed. He brings up SIVs. Which I do think are largely evil.

    It's alright, but I don't think there's any reason to automatically assume I'm one of those people simply because I disagree with you.
    I don't know about that. The longer you stay here you might change your mind about that. This place is kind of like the ocean. Stupidity ebbs and flows like the troughs and peaks of waves. Right now it's either at the peak or getting there. The level of stupid right now is outrageous. One fool here thought that because banks sat on the TARP money they didn't need it but did not understand the word "recapitalize." Christ sake.

    IMO, America is screwed not solely because of its government, but because of the sheer, unending idiocy of some of its voters.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 06-27-10 at 06:23 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    How the hell do peeps support the dems when they do crap like this???
    Please tell me you're not that thick... Please tell me your just making your usual hyper-partisan jabs and don't really mean what you say....

    Please tell me that you understand, at least in a general sense, that our economy is so vastly complex, a machine with millions of working parts... The statement "No one will know until this is actually in place how it works.", though not reassuring, is honest. No economist can predict with absolute certainty the outcome of fiscal policy change. And with changes to a system as massive as ours, credible economists will limit their speculation to specific cause/effect outcomes, using the words "may, and "might". They leave the moronic partisan speculation to the TV pundits.

    Also, as usual, you limit your comment in the OP to a single meaningless jab. If you have an opinion on a specific aspect of financial regulatory reform, why not state it? Or, are you afraid to show us you don't have clue what you're talking about?

  7. #67
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Please tell me you're not that thick... Please tell me your just making your usual hyper-partisan jabs and don't really mean what you say....

    Please tell me that you understand, at least in a general sense, that our economy is so vastly complex, a machine with millions of working parts... The statement "No one will know until this is actually in place how it works.", though not reassuring, is honest. No economist can predict with absolute certainty the outcome of fiscal policy change. And with changes to a system as massive as ours, credible economists will limit their speculation to specific cause/effect outcomes, using the words "may, and "might". They leave the moronic partisan speculation to the TV pundits.

    Also, as usual, you limit your comment in the OP to a single meaningless jab. If you have an opinion on a specific aspect of financial regulatory reform, why not state it? Or, are you afraid to show us you don't have clue what you're talking about?

    2,000 pages of "we don't know how it's really gonna work out, but trust us". Heard that with healthcare, and the disaster from that is just starting to take shape. You wanna let them **** the financial sector too? Well.. you WOULD but YOU aren't the people I'm talking too.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  8. #68
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,028

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    With Senator Byrd now in the hospital critically ill, is this bill in jeopardy now?

  9. #69
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Since government regulation allegedly was the cause, and I know Mr. V won't dare answer this question for fear of showing his argument to be false,

    What law forced Moody's and S&P to rate repackaged grade C mortgage securities as A's?

    After all, that played a sizable role in the process of securitization which was the real problem. So if regulation was the problem, can someone find me the law that says Moody's and S&P have to rate low grade securities as much more investment worthy?
    Still No Answer.

    Regulation you say?

    Funny. I can't find a single law on the books that says rating agencies must rate junk status securities as investment grade.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #70
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Still No Answer.

    Regulation you say?

    Funny. I can't find a single law on the books that says rating agencies must rate junk status securities as investment grade.
    When did I claim Moody's or S&P to do anything. You constructed an argument you CLAIM I have made, and as usual for you is a super narrow "what exact law made this happen" sort of thing. Knowing full well I have never implied there was a law that forced those groups to behave in any manner. IF you want to have a mature discussion, an honest one, let's keep the discussion to things said, not OC's demands for answers to questions no one but OC created.

    I all ready showed that companies were forced to give loans they otherwise would not have as per the Clinton Justice Department as part of the "anti-redlining" bs, further more I showed how companies were faced with the decision of giving money (that they were later able to slide the GSE's thus making the whole situation at least appear to be profitable) to maintain complaince or to fight the issue and risk losing.

    But don't bother answering if all you are going to do is stay on the faux demand you have for the faux question I never asked, implied or mentioned.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •