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Thread: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You replied to a military expenditure comment with multiple reasons "we" should be thankful of the US armed forces. I find it odd that's all
    I think this is because you don't understand what I stated. I thought I was clear. Cutting military expenditure throughout the 90s was more expensive come 9/11 when money had to be poured into fixing the military and replacing their lack of numbers with Blackwater mercenaries. How did all that work out? This was my point. I stated absolutely nothing about any of you being thankful for anything (you may try to prove otherwise since the posts are recorded for all to see). I merely followed the discussion. My posts centered around pulling your heads out of your asses in order to recognize that the default of raping the military between wars has been stupid and contradictory to the goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Ok, so you are calling for armed invasions of both Iran and North Korea as well. Good to know, however highly off topic.
    Armed invasion of Iran and North Korea would be stupid. The diplomats have talked us past the point of invasion. We have a nuclear Cold War in the Middle East ahead of us now. Thank a politician and the dimwitted idea that the "military should be a last resort." The problem with this is that only ahandful of Washington suits even no when that last resort is. This is why we pass it repeatedly and make the situations harder for our military than they have tobe.

    ......But I stated nothing of invading Iran or North Korea. Who's off topic now? Most threads are off topic. That's what actual discussion does. Notice how you followed the discussion as I did before you took it upon yourself to referee? Back off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Threatened? I felt it was odd that's all.
    No, you felt it personal to referee my posts, which were in response to others, which you didn't referee.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-27-10 at 01:35 PM.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I have no idea what that last bit has to do with anything. You're starting to sound like a lib.

    I´m just sayin, we have no business setting up enormous bases and flooding thousands of troops in anywhere and quit, the notion of nation building in places where it won't do any good. It's counter-productive.

    Thats all
    The "we broke it now we have to fix it" motto has been ridiculous. Nation building is senseless when dealing with divided populations based on tribe and religion.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    .No matter how corrupt or screwed up Afghanistan's government is, it can't be allowed to give them back power.
    If we pull out and they take over again, so what? The old regime comes back, they will not be in a hurry to help Al Qaeda. AQ ran out on them like pussies and left them to die and if they cause a problem, you hammer them again.

    We've gone back many times before..

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    If we pull out and they take over again, so what? The old regime comes back, they will not be in a hurry to help Al Qaeda. AQ ran out on them like pussies and left them to die and if they cause a problem, you hammer them again.

    We've gone back many times before..
    Nuclear power is a Middle Eastern guarantee. Our security, and that of our allies, will be greatly diminished if the Saddam Husseins and the Tali-Bans have control. It's bad enough we have an Amenedejad and an Iranian Majlis about to have parades with nuclear missiles on display.

    Tribes with guns have proven horribly deadly in this region. Imagine these tribes splitting atoms. No destruction is too great for God.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-27-10 at 02:24 PM.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    There are a handful of politicians (McCain, Gramm, Warner, Lieberman, and others) who routinely block the outdated Defense Industry programs while their select General or Admiral lobbies for the next toy. And President Obama obviously has somebody wise in his ear considering the quickness the F/A-22 went to bed. But, I don't see politicians admitting that they were wrong about cutting the military numbers. President Bush was all about killing our numbers. President Clinton was fond of it as well as he rode the backs of the military from one MOOTW to the next while promoting the privatization of the military. The result is President Bush's (Rumsfeld's really) Blackwater and a broken bank.

    Until they acknowledge how wrong they have been the problem will persist. Unfortunately, Washington has become a non-military member's club. How can people - who have deemed themselves too good to serve - know anything about what to fix in these regards? All they hear is some civilian in a suit or some General about to retire telling them that "nothing is too good for our troops." This is true of course, but what they give us isn't good enough. They have a history of providing toys for wars they want us to fight rather than the wars we are going to fight. Money gets wasted and China still hasn't attacked. In the mean time, our troops needed body armor and NBC suits in 2003. No money for such things, but here's another 10 F/A-22s that won't be used in either Iraq or Afghanistan (because they are too expensive to risk).
    It come back to allowing corporations to directly lobbying our govt instead of making these corporations and lobbyists have too educate and lobby the electorate. The people who vote on these things stand to profit from their votes w/o regard to the effects upon the nation as whole or in the long term.
    Much easier to buy a select few people in particular positions of influence than to sell bad ideas in the public marketplace of ideas.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Thats all nice when you have a true leader behind the troops, but with Obama, the limited rules of engagement that are forced on our troops in Astan is sending men to fight without authorizing them the tools to fight with is just losing lives needlessly. In order to win there our government has to want to win no matter what the costs. Thats why, I believe it is best to pull out the ground troops and bomb the holy crap of every position where a Taliban is believed to be embedded. Many civs will die, buts thats war....You kill until the enemy suffers so many losses they just give up and give up without conditions.
    That plan worked very well for the Soviets. Why wouldn't we want to pursue the same glorious victory that the USSR achieved?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It come back to allowing corporations to directly lobbying our govt instead of making these corporations and lobbyists have too educate and lobby the electorate. The people who vote on these things stand to profit from their votes w/o regard to the effects upon the nation as whole or in the long term.
    Much easier to buy a select few people in particular positions of influence than to sell bad ideas in the public marketplace of ideas.
    Absolutely and there is just no fix. I see a social class system with this. Washington used to be full of WWII and Korean War vets. So was Hollywood. Today there is a very bold line of separation drawn between Washington and the military. Hollywood makes sappy "woe is me" films about the destroyed military psyche or the Washington's disassociation of what is and is not good for our defense.

    Let's save 500,000 dollars by not paying the salaries of 5,000 professional troops, but spend 50 billion dollars on another toy we don't need. Not enough troops to fight in Iraq now? Let's spend another 50 million dollars on a Black Water organization to offer the illusion of numbers. Didn't save any money by cutting down the military did we? All because people don't know the difference between the military and the Defense Industry. It's frustrating and intellectually retarded.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-27-10 at 05:45 PM.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I think this is because you don't understand what I stated. I thought I was clear. Cutting military expenditure throughout the 90s was more expensive come 9/11 when money had to be poured into fixing the military and replacing their lack of numbers with Blackwater mercenaries. How did all that work out? This was my point. I stated absolutely nothing about any of you being thankful for anything (you may try to prove otherwise since the posts are recorded for all to see). I merely followed the discussion. My posts centered around pulling your heads out of your asses in order to recognize that the default of raping the military between wars has been stupid and contradictory to the goal.
    In a thread about US and world economic growth, someone says military budgets should be cut, and instantly you build a massive soap box to spew speculations such as "the budget cuts in the 1990's caused 911", etc....

    Armed invasion of Iran and North Korea would be stupid. The diplomats have talked us past the point of invasion. We have a nuclear Cold War in the Middle East ahead of us now. Thank a politician and the dimwitted idea that the "military should be a last resort." The problem with this is that only ahandful of Washington suits even no when that last resort is. This is why we pass it repeatedly and make the situations harder for our military than they have tobe.
    Just following the line of logic you employed in previous posts. Don't want to allow Iran and NK to stir up WWIII now do we? Preemptive war discussions are for a different thread/sub-forum.

    ......But I stated nothing of invading Iran or North Korea. Who's off topic now? Most threads are off topic. That's what actual discussion does. Notice how you followed the discussion as I did before you took it upon yourself to referee? Back off.
    How about you stop acting like a weirdo every time someone begins discussing military budget cuts?

    No, you felt it personal to referee my posts, which were in response to others, which you didn't referee.
    Nobody else goes on super rants every time a "conflict of interest" arises and turns a discussion about global growth into a discussion regarding military conflict. Like i said before, not only is it odd, its ****ing weird....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    As a red-blooded American I must say I'm so glad we spent $300million on an airshow airplane. And $300million x 186 on a set of paperweight/Red Flag Cheat Mode planes
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Billions can be saved by stream lining the Defense Industry. Putting the brakes on the F/A-22 was a start.
    I think being light years ahead of the world in air defense/attack is well worth the money. Americans have lived so long under the protection of an invincible Navy and Air Force that they cannot comprehend looking to the seas and skies with fear or apprehension.

    NASA, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Army, all of them should get more money. Peace through strength.

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