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Thread: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

  1. #41
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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    When the U.S. has 25% of the world's population but uses 60% of the world's annual bounty, there is no "catching up", America has to conserve.

    The U.S. has set an impractical, unhealthy, and impossible standard for the rest of the world. I would prefer if the world followed the economies of some European nations or the micro-economies of some self-sustaining African societies, than I would for the world to follow the American capitalist blue print. Look at China... they are trying to become the U.S., and their country has become one big smoke stack that is draining the world and polluting the air at the same time.
    Economic growth doesn't automatically mean destroying the planet. Energy use is changing, but all economies are having problems with that, including non-capitalists.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  2. #42
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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    We have eliminated a potential threat in Iraq.

    Hans Blix testimony before the war illustrated what we didn't know; which was a huge amount of the most dangerous toxins in the world were unaccounted for and that they were in the dark about what Saddam had done in the four years the Inspecteurs de la UN were booted out. He would have reconstituted his WMD programs as well.

    David Kay in Senate Armed Services testimony stated we were lucky, as the place was in such chaos, he believed the chance for a terrorist hooking up with and acquiring WMD was a real possibility, and if it didn't already happen we were lucky.

    The benefit of taking out Saddam and setting up the infancy of democracy in that region is yet fully unknown and won't be known for some time.

    If we want to cut spending, there are scores of departments and programs that should be phased out or shut down.

    As for what Obama's statement: He is Dr. Demise.
    Thats all nice when you have a true leader behind the troops, but with Obama, the limited rules of engagement that are forced on our troops in Astan is sending men to fight without authorizing them the tools to fight with is just losing lives needlessly. In order to win there our government has to want to win no matter what the costs. Thats why, I believe it is best to pull out the ground troops and bomb the holy crap of every position where a Taliban is believed to be embedded. Many civs will die, buts thats war....You kill until the enemy suffers so many losses they just give up and give up without conditions.

    Obama won´t do it and probably future Presidents won´t do it....So, what the **** are we doing there?..and whats worse is our military will lose the will of to even fight it.

    Its time to get the hell out
    Last edited by ric27; 06-25-10 at 01:47 PM.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Economic growth doesn't automatically mean destroying the planet.
    Right now it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Energy use is changing, but all economies are having problems with that, including non-capitalists.
    Capitalist economies are still the lynch pin.

  4. #44
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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    And Duece agains adds nothing to a thread.

    Why did America Elect such people taht have no faith in the Country? The shame of this Administration will take a generation to expunge.
    or we could do it the old fashion way

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So how much of the military would you like to see be cut?
    How many unnecessary bases can you count? How many more unwanted C-130 troop transport planes are being ordered to provide jobs in certain senator's districts employed? How about pulling 58,000 troops out of the EU so the US public can have a retirement age prior to 88, as opposed to the euros retiring at 55?

    I'm a cons republican, and I would cut the military significantly - but I'd still cut/eliminate tons of other programs as well.

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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    A generalization by me, based on your "very conservative" leaning in your profile

    I have not seen many "very conservatives" who support cutting the military budget at all
    Then they are not truly conservative. A true conservative does not want high taxes, which a wasteful, inefficient and bloated military would entail.

  7. #47
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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    And Duece agains adds nothing to a thread.

    Why did America Elect such people taht have no faith in the Country? The shame of this Administration will take a generation to expunge.
    Quite an ignorant comment seeing as the Treasury Secretary's statement was referring to converging economies that will require greater domestic economic growth (meaning less reliance on exporting to America) to reach such a status. We have witnessed convergence from Japan and many western European countries since WWII. Therefore, convergence will play a much larger part in world economic growth than say an expanding US consumer base.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #48
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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    It would be preferable if the US wars were over, I am not entirely sure whether we actually gain anything from constantly warring with other nations.
    Afghanistan was different is so far as those who attacked the US were being harboured there.
    The Iraq war was stupid, we gained nothing.
    Your entire lifestyle is owed to the fact that we have been immersed in war with other nations from time to time. It's a globalizing world that depends on the security of trades and stability. Who has provided that since WWII? Who has prevented a WWIII by not allowing enemies to grow too powerful to deal with? Unlike our allies, we don't have a big brother to take most of the burden for us. Oil was the biggest factor during WWII. 8 billion barrels of oil (7 from the U.S. supply) was used by the allies against Germany. The race to gain favor in the Middle East throughout the Cold War was more about denying the Soviets oil than it was about some greedy demand commonly attributed to the U.S.


    And what did we gain in regards to Afghanistan? At least Iraq has oil. On the simplest level, the only difference Afghanistan offerred was a source for our revenge. However, on a more analytical level (where I try to swim) , the entire Middle East is a mess. And the more unhealthy it gets, the more dangerous it is for Americans. Our troops are going to fight in the Middle East as long as religious terror is being bred. This means that the region's dictators, theologies, lack of education, poverty, and tribal friction is our problem. It is a historical fact that America's security has always relied upon the health of regions abroad. The longer we ignore it and pretend that it "isn't our problem" the more blood American military personel will have to be shed to eventually deal with it. We have allies in the region and they deserve our protection as much as a blood soaked European nation does.

    We pretended that the health of a Soviet free Afghanistan was not our problem. We pretended that the Tali-Ban would never be our problem. We pretended that chasing Saddam Hussein back to behind his borders was a victory. We pretended that bombing his cities for a decade would be the extent of our burden. And how much do we pretend that Saudi Arabia isn't the demon behind the monsters? Or that Iran is one step away from turning its back on nuclear power and being our friends?

    The bumber sticker rally to deny Iraq's importance and our responsiblities in regards to Hussein is a pointless venture and never really had any valid argument. Hate the politicians who couldn't be straight with you. hate the irresponsible manner in which they managed it. Hate the unnecesary exxagerated economical grossness of it. But eventually, Iraq was going to happen because Saddam Hussein was our responsibility and it was one country among many in this region that needed a kick in the ass. Oh, and hate that Iraq is still a whole country. That was a tactical mistake for which many more will die for. Arabs have proven that they cannot build a healthy state where tribes are equally treated.

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  9. #49
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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Another misguided poster that doesn't realize that Social Spending is like 3-1 over Military Spending. But hey, don't let that interfere with your silly "military cost cutting" non-sense.
    The reason military spending is an obvious target as it is the most discretionary large cost we have. The social programs have been woven into the very fabric of our society. You might scale them back for future generations, but there really is very little things you can do with meaningful short-term results. Much like if you lose your job, cutting cable is easy, unloading the house is far more complex.

    But let's run with your ideas. Tell me exactly how you would cut social spending and what your remedy for its consequences will be. I am tired of this conservative polyanna view of the world. They have quick, but rarely very well thought out answers. I would much rather be a conservative as things are simple to them.

    1) What would you cut? and how much?
    2) What are the consequences of those cuts? (ie, if you eliminate social security and/or medicare, what happens to our elder population that has 65% of its retirement funding from social security, and what happens to the baby boomers that have no savings..... or do we just have 60% of the population over 65 homeless)
    3) What are the remedies for those consequences (how do you deal with that type of social turmoil)?

    It is very, very difficult to balance a budget in a recession, as by definition tax revenues are very low, so you are cutting the government below standard operating levels. That kind of drastic cut during a recession also tends to compound the problem, and is generally thought to be the wrong thing to do in recession. I am all for balancing a budget, but it needs to be balanced consistent with a normal run-rate.

    I am tired of conservative criticism without a conservative solutions (real solutions, not high-level fantasy).... get off your high horse and get to work. You can start here:

    Budget of the United States Government: Browse

    Or, for a simple version:

    United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-26-10 at 12:57 PM.

  10. #50
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    Re: US can 'no longer drive global growth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Obama won´t do it and probably future Presidents won´t do it....So, what the **** are we doing there?..and whats worse is our military will lose the will of to even fight it.

    Its time to get the hell out
    We can't get the hell out and future Presidents don't have a choice. Reagan denied our responsibilities and left them for Bush. Bush denied our responsibilities and left them for Clinton. Clinton looked for ways to depose of Hussein and wound up merely bombing him 4 times. And when 9/11 happened, people were actually shocked that our lack of responsibility came back to haunt us. What shall we deny today that will only kill more Americans later? From one president to the next, all they did was cater to the civilian's sense of "peace" by pretending that problems will fix themselves.

    The military has never lost the will to fight. It's civilians that have done this and ruined every outcome since WWII. In this war, we weren't satisfied with just chasing the dictator's army back to his borders to contain him. We finished it so that it wouldn't linger into a political mess. But this is where we stopped finishing things. Korea was merely split in half and we deal with a nuclear rogue North Korea today. Vietnam was vacated only to usher in genocide. The Gulf War was half assed and merely put on hold for a later date. We vacated Somalia only to have to deal with Somali piracy in international waters later. Bosnia has been made safe for human trafficers and gun runners and merely awaits to commence round 2.

    The greatest problem plaguing the Middle East and African nations is bad borders and corruption. As long as they remain, we will have to be involved. As long as the Kurds are split between 4 nations who encourage rebellion and uprising, we will have to be involved. As long as Saudi stability matters, we will have to be involved. As long as Israel remains, we will have to be involved. As long as Iran seeks nuclear power, we will have to be involved. And best believe that as soon as the tribes of the Middle East begin their nuclear "Cold War," the entire world will want us to be involved.

    Everybody thinks in the now as if tomorrow will fix itself. It's like looking at your check engine light for months and waiting until the engine won't start to pull out the check book. In the end, its the military that pays in blood.

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