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Thread: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I've not had a single direct quote by McChrystal concerning the POTUS from that article presented to me. The only times in the article I've seen where McChrystal speaks of Obama is third party heresay...such as an "aide" saying McChrystal thought Obama looked intimidate and uncomfortable around military Brass. It was an "aide" who stated the thought McChrystal was dissappointed with Obama for treating a meeting like a photo op. I've yet to see a single, solitary quote that was "McChrystal stated [x] about Obama", only statements made about lower people on the totem pole or statements by Aides making statements about what McChrystal either said or felt.

    Yet we're supposed to take a rolling stone interviews reporting of unnamed "Aides" as legitimate unquestionable fact that McChrystal spoke insubordinantly about the President, but we're supposed to ignore this completely and utterly.
    I will admit that I haven't had much time to read the articles so in my haste I might have missed where it said the aides. But I do remember a CNN article that said McChrystal was upset with the civilian leadership. I will try and find the article though so I can link it to you, but like I said in my haste in reading I might have missed where it said it was the aides not McChrystal himself. I will agree though if McCrystal himself said nothing then it was also heresay.

    edit: Here is the link to the story. http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/...pt=T1&iref=BN1

    Granted the article never quotes McChrystal directly, but does say that the Rolling Stone article was his comments.
    Last edited by soccerboy22; 06-28-10 at 03:19 PM.

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    I read through the article. In regards to the things people CLAIM McChrystal has said and whats in there I found this

    The only things in the article seemingly stated BY McChrystal:

    “How’d I get screwed into going to this dinner?” in regards to being in paris to pitch strategy to NATO allies, which seems to be followed by joking with his Chief of Staff about it coming with the position making it appear to be simple joking, his way of dealing with a situation the interviewer even states seems to make him uncomfortable

    About Biden? His ONLY comment about him was jokingly stating his desire to say “Who’s that?” when talking about how he’d like to respond to what he terms as “The Biden Question”, which seems to be a reference to the fact sometime last year he was asked about his views on Biden’s strategy in Afghanistan and got a scolding from the White House for his response. So his only “disrespect” towards Biden is a joke saying he’d want to go “Who’s that” when asked leading questions about Biden.

    The notion that he said Obama was “uncomfortable and intimidated” after a meeting with military brass. Well, that came from “Sources familiar with the meeting”. Calling the meeting where he got appointed head of Afghanistan a “10 minute photo-op”. That wasn’t McChyrstal, that was an aide’s definition of it. That McChrystal was “disappointed” about Obama’s knowledge of him in the meeting? Again, the view of an aide.

    The “Mission Failure” comment? From a report requested by Gates that was supposed to be private and was leaked by someone else.

    The only even QUESTIONABLE statement directly applied to McChyrstal the entire interview? That the 3 month waiting period as Obama made a decision about the troops for Afghanistan as “painful” because he was selling his soldiers an unsellable position during that 3 month bubble. That’s not insulting of the President, or a superior, or anything of the such, but was a statement of the difficulty of command when you’re in limbo.

    The supposed comments by McChrystal about Holbrooke, the guy in charge of reintegrating the Taliban, being like a “wounded animal and being “dangerous”? Yep, again, an aide. The only thing McChrystal does that’s seen first hand? He receives an email from him during the trip to Paris, which he was already uncomfortable with, and states he’s doesn’t even want to read it. Truly insubordinate.

    It talks about McChrystal being at odds with Ambassador Eikenberry…but then proceeds to focus on things EIKENBERRY has said or done towards McChrystal. The only thing quoted to McChrystal about Eikenberry? That he knew him for years, they’d never said anything like that to McChrystal’s before, that he felt betrayed, and felt Eikenberry’s comments were simply a CYA move incase the efforts in Afghanistan failed. All the other “slights” are nothing but people’s opinions of what McChrystal’s actions, like appointing someone else Viceroy, were meant to mean.

    There is not a single, solitary, quoted word from McChrystal about the Commander in Chief. The only thing that even mentions Biden that is directly from him is stating dimsisively "Who's that" when jokingly answering how he'd like to answer his next round of "Biden Questions". There is no direct quote of him insulting Ambassador Eikenberry, who even then wouldn't be a superior. Holbrooke? He states he doesn't want to read an email he sent. The ONLY questionable thing he said the entire time DIRECTLY that related to Obama is any way is that it was very difficult to sell an unsellable position during the 3 month limbo of not knowing if the President would send the requested number of troops or not.

    Every single solitary bit of truly damaging, "insubordinate", comments that are attributed to McChrystal in that entire article come from 3rd party heresay sources. An "Aide" said he was disappoitned the President used their meeting as a Photo-op. A "source" said he stated the President looked intimidated. An "aide" said he stated Holbrooke was a "wounded animal" and "dangerous" in the way he did his job.

    This isn't apples to oranges, its apples to apples. One man was roasted and reamed and removed from his job based in large part by 3rd party heresay stated through a source with questionable bias, while another man is completely untouched as we're told to absolutely ignore the 3rd party heresay of a man with questionable motivational bias but is under oath.

    Article here if you want to read it

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    I agree McChrystal didn't say anything directly about President Obama, but to me when he is questioning civilian leadership he is indirectly questioning the President. And I agree with you that McCrystal lost his job from heresay. He shouldn't have solely based on that. But I still think in the case of Harris it is still just heresay and there isn't a lot of evidence that would lead to anything.

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    What civilian leadership did he question? Stating a displeasure for wanting to read a persons email is not questioning civilian leadership.

    And I'm not saying that Obama should be impeached simply on Heresay. I'm saying that if heresay is enough to have a private meeting with McChrystal and look at his ability to run a command structure as a whole then I think its at least SOMEWHAT reasonable, if you're going to be consistant, to suggest that heresay concerning Obama potentially acting illegaly at least warrants a second look and not absolute and complete rejection and immediete ignoring.

    All I'm saying is the notion that "OMG, McChrystal's aides said he said bad things about Obama. We need to court martial him or fire him" at one point due to heresay and going "OMG, this is just heresay, we shouldn't believe this guy, ignore it" are on two VERY different ends of the spectrum and are questionable when you put them together.

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    No.

    If you have a point to make in disagreement with me, then make it. I shouldn't have to do your research for you.
    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 1 > § 4
    Misprision of felony
    Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
    United States Code: Title 18,4. Misprision of felony | LII / Legal Information Institute

    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    And I'm not saying that Obama should be impeached simply on Heresay. I'm saying that if heresay is enough to have a private meeting with McChrystal and look at his ability to run a command structure as a whole then I think its at least SOMEWHAT reasonable, if you're going to be consistant, to suggest that heresay concerning Obama potentially acting illegaly at least warrants a second look and not absolute and complete rejection and immediete ignoring.

    All I'm saying is the notion that "OMG, McChrystal's aides said he said bad things about Obama. We need to court martial him or fire him" at one point due to heresay and going "OMG, this is just heresay, we shouldn't believe this guy, ignore it" are on two VERY different ends of the spectrum and are questionable when you put them together.
    That is how I feel as well. I think I just did a bad job of explaining that. Also thank you for the actual article that I have heard so much about.

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    NP, i was happy to find it. Reading it didn't just reinforce my views but actually made me start to switch from thinking "its perfectly acceptable that he was fired and he was stupid for saying things" to "its a bit questionable he got fired for that, the media coverage of it does a HORRIBLE disservice to actual fact, and it was idiotic of him to let a Rolling Stone interviewer in and expected the everyday general and candid conversations that are questionable but not over the top to not be presented in the worst possible way"

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    Of course, this particular crime was not committed by anybody so...
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Of course, this particular crime was not committed by anybody so...
    We'll have to assume you have thoroughly investigated to reach this conclusion.....
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Harris: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    What civilian leadership did he question? Stating a displeasure for wanting to read a persons email is not questioning civilian leadership.

    And I'm not saying that Obama should be impeached simply on Heresay. I'm saying that if heresay is enough to have a private meeting with McChrystal and look at his ability to run a command structure as a whole then I think its at least SOMEWHAT reasonable, if you're going to be consistant, to suggest that heresay concerning Obama potentially acting illegaly at least warrants a second look and not absolute and complete rejection and immediete ignoring.

    All I'm saying is the notion that "OMG, McChrystal's aides said he said bad things about Obama. We need to court martial him or fire him" at one point due to heresay and going "OMG, this is just heresay, we shouldn't believe this guy, ignore it" are on two VERY different ends of the spectrum and are questionable when you put them together.
    We will say both are heresay, and both are not allowed in a criminal proceeding. Is it enough for General McChrystal to be courtmartialed? No. Is it enough for General McChrystal to lose his job in the military? Yeah. If you think Obama should lose his job over this, then you should not vote for him in the next election.

    I agree with your sentiment here though, but I will explain the dissimilarities. First of all, this is several chains down of people do we get to Obama. Secondly, its saying Harris says Blagojevich said ... I think its considered widely that Blagojevich is a known liar as he has been proclaiming his innocence when there were incriminating phone calls of him in his impeachment trial. I don't see anything in the article incriminating Obama other than Blagojevich. I frankly think that Obama would be too busy to even care anything about his senate seat anymore.

    On the other hand, the McChrystal article was written by a professional reporter who has worked for Newsweek previously. And also everything quoted was heard directly by him not through chains of other people. Might it have a slant? Maybe. But was any of it inaccurate or misquoted? I haven't heard of that so far.

    If you can find anything more incriminating of Obama, I'd be willing to look into it.
    Last edited by Opteron; 06-29-10 at 11:26 PM.

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