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Thread: McChrystal relieved of his command.

  1. #141
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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Good ****ing lord...

    OK...so Obama KEPT McChrystal and his inompetent policies and only booted him because he dared to be critical of his administration. Got it...

    Ivve NEVER suggested his comments where excusable. I HAVE suggested that you MIGHT want to think outside of your tiny little box. Nah...never mind.
    Chill out. I don't think anybody ever said McChrystal was incompetent, and IIRC the plan is to insert Petraeus and follow the same strategy as with McChrystal under new leadership. But you're starting to contradict yourself. Earlier you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If McChrystal is such a good general and they hold this administration in such loiw regard...is it just because he is a bad general (that doesnt jibe with everyones glowing comments) or because the administration and their actions and support of the Afghan war blows?
    That sounds like an excuse for his comments to me, except now you say that you never suggested his comments were excusable. So which is it?

    I'd say that the one in a "tiny box" is you, Vance, for failing to see that the issue at hand is a shortcoming of McChrystal and his command staff alone. You should get out of your tiny box where Obama can do nothing right and every situation is perverted in such a way that Obama is to blame. Obama isn't to blame for this, McChrystal is, period. Obama "booted" McChrystal because McChrystal had given Obama no other choice but to do so, and it had nothing to do with McChrystals policies (aside from his policy of circumventing the chain of command and airing his grievances with the press).
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 06-24-10 at 11:57 AM.

  2. #142
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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sometimes you guys EPITOMIZE the encyclopedia definition of FACE-PALM in your myopic defense of your ideological leader.

    Holy bat****. Seriously. You Just said "The Administration's responsibility is that it approved General McChrystal's strategy". Really? Thats BEING IN CHARGE? Is it a GOOD strategy? Is it working? Why is there animosity between the Afghan War commanders entire staff and the administration? Could there ACTUALLY be some fault in the administration that needs addressing???

    Oh...we SEE the pattern. Obama is in charge of the gulf oil spill...has been since DAY ONE...OK...so its in its THIRD ****ING MONTH and its still gushing 60 THOUSAND barrels of oil a DAY...but they are IN CHARGE and giving BP what they want...And they are in charge of the budget. And spending. And unemployment. And the housing crisis.
    Not that is probably the first time Don has been accused of that.
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  3. #143
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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Chill out. I don't think anybody ever said McChrystal was incompetent, and IIRC the plan is to insert Petraeus and follow the same strategy as with McChrystal under new leadership. But you're starting to contradict yourself. Earlier you said:



    That sounds like an excuse for his comments to me, except now you say that you never suggested his comments were excusable. So which is it?

    I'd say that the one in a "tiny box" is yourself, for failing to see that the issue at hand is a shortcoming of McChrystal and his command staff alone. You should get out of your tiny box where Obama can do nothing right and every situation is perverted in such a way that Obama is to blame. Obama isn't to blame for this, McChrystal is, period. Obama "booted" McChrystal because McChrystal had given Obama no other choice but to do so, and it had nothing to do with McChrystals policies (aside from his policy of circumventing the chain of command and airing his grievances with the press).
    Never not once have I 'excused' the comments. I served for 20 years and was raised by a whole lot of old navy chiefs as surrogate parents...I never once took my bitches or gripes DOWN or outside of the chain...peers and superiors ONLY. From the BEGINNING I said there was no excuse or justification.

    What I AM SAYING...is that MAYBE JUST MAYBE there MIGHT be SOMETHING in the administrations actions and behaviors that contributed to the animosity and if THAT isnt addressed it will remain a PROBLEM. NOT Justifying. NOT excusing. But does that mean there isnt MORE to learn other than 'bad general'?

    Sort of like other situations...when incompetent people are in power and that incompetence doesnt CHANGE then eventually they will manage to **** EVERYTHING up. So MAYBE there might be a REASON Biden is seen as such a complete and total loser. MAYBE there might be a REASON the other Obama administration officials are seen as suc h complete and total losers. And MAYBE those LOSERS are still there.

  4. #144
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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    -- Holy bat****. Seriously. You Just said "The Administration's responsibility is that it approved General McChrystal's strategy". Really? Thats BEING IN CHARGE? Is it a GOOD strategy? Is it working?
    A democratic govt / administration works by appointing specialists in certain areas where it doesn't have specific skillsets. It can rotate or change the positions of those specialists if political aims or expediency changes and those specialists (usually) have a direct line to give alternative advice or disagreements where policy matters are concerned.

    I think what you'll find is Don has adequately explained himself - the specialist on the ground (in this case McChrystal) was acting on Administation policy (part of what Obama got elected on) but he sets up the specifics in situ and the implementation of the strategy. Obama isn't "in charge" directly of the troops - but he is "in charge" of the commanders at the top.

    If I recall from watching your US election - Obama spoke of a different direction in Afghanistan to the previous administration and that included a surge (I could be wrong but I am not from the US) of numbers. McChrystal on the ground had overall responsibility for the implementation of the strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    -- Oh...we SEE the pattern. Obama is in charge of the gulf oil spill...has been since DAY ONE...OK...so its in its THIRD ****ING MONTH and its still gushing 60 THOUSAND barrels of oil a DAY...but they are IN CHARGE and giving BP what they want...And they are in charge of the budget. And spending. And unemployment. And the housing crisis.
    The BP spill has little to do with chains of command in a govt enterprise such as carrying out a war in another country. BP is a multinational and Obama's mistaken attempt to appear "in charge" is more to do with domestic politics and trying to appease those who want the Govt to interfere in private industry matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sometimes you guys EPITOMIZE the encyclopedia definition of FACE-PALM in your myopic defense of your ideological leader.
    I think you wrong Don Sutherland there and before you accuse me of seeing Obama as my "ideological leader" - I'm British but similar principles of chains of command apply.

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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    @HellHound and Vance, sure that's a valid criticism to make, and you ought to consider when you're in the voting booth come 2012. But that's totally irrelevant to McChrystal, as has been said by somebody else above, he didn't have the luxury to make those comments, and his failure to maintain appropriate discretion is the real scandal here. But hey, try to spin it against Obama, whatever. As long as you're not active duty military you have every right to do so.



    What comments? Please quote and link as I have been asking you for several days now.
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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, you can do it as active duty military as well. You just cannot do it all the time, and especially not in front of the media.



    One is not supposed to critisize the government or the CiC while in uniform.
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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    A democratic govt / administration works by appointing specialists in certain areas where it doesn't have specific skillsets. It can rotate or change the positions of those specialists if political aims or expediency changes and those specialists (usually) have a direct line to give alternative advice or disagreements where policy matters are concerned.

    I think what you'll find is Don has adequately explained himself - the specialist on the ground (in this case McChrystal) was acting on Administation policy (part of what Obama got elected on) but he sets up the specifics in situ and the implementation of the strategy. Obama isn't "in charge" directly of the troops - but he is "in charge" of the commanders at the top.

    If I recall from watching your US election - Obama spoke of a different direction in Afghanistan to the previous administration and that included a surge (I could be wrong but I am not from the US) of numbers. McChrystal on the ground had overall responsibility for the implementation of the strategy.



    The BP spill has little to do with chains of command in a govt enterprise such as carrying out a war in another country. BP is a multinational and Obama's mistaken attempt to appear "in charge" is more to do with domestic politics and trying to appease those who want the Govt to interfere in private industry matters.



    I think you wrong Don Sutherland there and before you accuse me of seeing Obama as my "ideological leader" - I'm British but similar principles of chains of command apply.
    I dont think you were involved in the conversation before the FACE-PALM comments. however since you apparently took offense to it, then 1-I apologize and 2-says it struck close to home.

  8. #148
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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What comments? Please quote and link as I have been asking you for several days now.
    Yeah, and I still don't get what you're talking about. What comments? These comments. The comments that got him fired, you know, the ones in Rolling Stone. It's well known he said Obama looked "uncomfortable and intimidated" when he met with military officials for the first time. He made negative comments about Biden and other officials as well. Are you seriously trying to argue that McChrystal is innocent here? I'm perplexed.

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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    -- since you apparently took offense to it, then 1-I apologize and 2-says it struck close to home.
    Apology not necessary.
    I didn't take offense - I think I'm the one who should apologise as I didn't put my response properly to you.

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    Re: McChrystal relieved of his command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Apology not necessary.
    I didn't take offense - I think I'm the one who should apologise as I didn't put my response properly to you.
    No worries! Believe it or not, once my inane rantings are done here I NEVER take any of this personally!

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