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Thread: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Then open up the waters closer to shore for drilling so we don't have to have so many deep water sites. I would say it is true that the risk is higher but this isn't the first deep water site in the world. This disaster should only make deep water drilling safer because everyone is on alert.
    Actually, there are already more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, so looks to me like it has been opened up pretty good. On another note, want to know how much hypocritical BS there is in all this rubbish about Louisiana losing its economy? Of the more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, only 36 of them are deep water exploration wells that the moratorium would affect. This is more about Republicans, along with the special interests that have bought them, giving Obama the middle finger for the sake of giving Obama the middle finger. And, BTW, the judge who issued the ruling has stock in the very company who built the Deepwater Horizon well, and owns a lot of stock in oil companies. Repeat after me - Conflict of interest. If that judge had ethics, he would have recused himself from the case, since his own financial interests are directly tied to it.

    I believe that this will be overturned on appeal.
    Last edited by danarhea; 06-23-10 at 11:23 AM.
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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, there are already more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, so looks to me like it has been opened up pretty good. On another note, want to know how much hypocritical BS there is in all this rubbish about Louisiana losing its economy? Of the more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, only 36 of them are deep water exploration wells that the moratorium would affect. This is more about Republicans, along with the special interests that have bought them, giving Obama the middle finger for the sake of giving Obama the middle finger. And, BTW, the judge who issued the ruling has stock in the very company who built the Deepwater Horizon well, and owns a lot of stock in oil companies. Repeat after me - Conflict of interest. If that judge had ethics, he would have recused himself from the case, since his own financial interests are directly tied to it.

    I believe that this will be overturned on appeal.
    From the Louisiana Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association:
    Suspension of operations means roughly 33 floating drilling rigs – typically leased for hundreds of thousands of dollars per day – will be idled for six months or longer.
    $250,000 to $500,000 per day, per rig – results in roughly $8,250,000 to $16,500,000 per day in costs for idle rigs;

    Secondary impacts include:
    • Supply boats – 2 boats per rig with day rates of $15,000/day per boat - $30,000/day for 33 rigs – nearly $1 million/day
    • Impacts to other supplies and related support services (i.e., welders, divers, caterers, transportation, etc.)

    Jobs –
    Each drilling platform averages 90 to 140 employees at any one time (2 shifts per day), and 180 to 280 for 2 2-week shifts
    Each E&P job supports 4 other positions
    Therefore, 800 to 1400 jobs per idle rig platform are at risk
    Wages for those jobs average $1,804/weekly; potential for lost wages is huge, over $5 to $10 million for 1 month – per platform.
    Wages lost could be over $165 to $330 million/month for all 33 platforms

    Secondary impacts: Many offshore workers live in Louisiana. The state is going to see a decrease in income taxes and sales taxes that would normally be paid by those employees. (The state does not collect a sales tax on oilfield supplies and equipment used offshore.)
    That is a pretty substantial economic impact... while you are right it would probably not destroy the economy, it would have a large impact.

    As for the judge, it has been discussed elsewhere about his supposed "conflict of interest" or in reality, the lack thereof. Might be overturned on appeal, but the reason will have nothing to do with the judge.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Yes, it's true. Every rig has small spills and flare ups. I will repeat, inspections prior to the explosion indicate no issues of concern.
    That's most likely because the MMS was the most corrupt agency out there. However, just because the MMS wasn't doing its job properly, doesn't mean there weren't "issues of concern" prior to the oil rig explosion and subsequent underwater gusher.

    Damning Evidence from BP Rig Employee

    Transocean employee Mike Williams makes some damning allegations during the 60 Minutes interview.

    The videos can be accessed from Blowout: The Deepwater Horizon Disaster - 60 Minutes - CBS News.

    The most damning is an accident that happened four weeks before the fatal explosion.

    The rig’s most vital piece of safety equipment was damaged. The rig has a blowout preventer (BOP) down near the seabed. It’s used to seal the well shut in order to test the integrity of the well. In case of a blowout, it’s the crew’s only hope.

    A key component of the BOP was damaged accidentally when a crew member accidentally nudged the joystick while the BOP was shut, applying hundreds of thousands of pounds of force and destroying the seal of the BOP.

    When a crew member reported seeing large pieces of rubber in the drilling fluid, his report was ignored. “It’s no big deal,” said the drilling supervisor. But the incident destroyed the integrity of the BOP.


    Another problem Williams describes is how one of the control pods lost some of its functions weeks before.

    Williams also testifies about how work was continually being speeded up on the rig because drilling costs a million dollars a day. When one hole had to be abandoned, the pressure was ratchetted up.

    CBS ads the allegation that Haliburton’s concrete oil plugs failed in the face of an inadequate well-closing procedure that was compromised in terms of safety to expedite drilling.\

    “Men lost their lives,” Williams concludes. “All the things they told us would never happen, happened.”
    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    I never once saw any one complaining about the MMS utilizing their limited resources to watch out for problematic rigs before this explosion.
    You don't have any clue about the history of the MMS, do you?

    In September 2008, reports by the Inspector General of the Interior Department, Earl E. Devaney, were released that implicated over a dozen officials of the MMS of unethical and criminal conduct in the performance of their duties. The investigation found MMS employees had taken drugs and had sex with energy company representatives. MMS staff had also accepted gifts and free holidays amid "a culture of ethical failure", according to the investigation. The New York Times's summary states the investigation revealed "a dysfunctional organization that has been riddled with conflicts of interest, unprofessional behavior and a free-for-all atmosphere for much of the Bush administration’s watch."

    A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies.[33] Staffers also used government computers to view pornography.[34] In 2009 the regional supervisor of the Gulf region for MMS pled guilty and was sentenced to a year's probation in federal court for lying about receiving gifts from an offshore drilling contractor. "This deeply disturbing report is further evidence of the cozy relationship between MMS and the oil and gas industry," Salazar said.

    The Project On Government Oversight (POGO) alleges that MMS has suffered from a systemic revolving door problem between the Department of Interior and the oil and gas industries. For example, thirteen months after departing as MMS director, Bush appointee Randall Luthi became president of the National Oceans Industries Association (NOIA) whose mission is to "to secure reliable access and a favorable regulatory and economic environment for the companies that develop the nation's valuable offshore energy resources in an environmentally responsible manner." Luthi succeeded Tom Fry, who was MMS director under the Clinton administration. Luthi and Fry represented precisely the industries their agency was tasked with being a watchdog over. Lower level administrators influencing MMS have also gone on to work for the companies they once regulated: In addition, Jimmy Mayberry served as Special Assistant to the Associate Director of Minerals Revenue Management (MRM), managed by MMS, from 2000 to January 2003. After he left, he created an energy consulting company that was awarded an MMS contract via a rigged bid. He was convicted along with a former MMS coworker Milton Dial who also came to work at the company. Both were found guilty of felony violation of conflict of interest law.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    From the Louisiana Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association:

    That is a pretty substantial economic impact... while you are right it would probably not destroy the economy, it would have a large impact.

    As for the judge, it has been discussed elsewhere about his supposed "conflict of interest" or in reality, the lack thereof. Might be overturned on appeal, but the reason will have nothing to do with the judge.
    While it might have an impact, that impact would be negligable, compared to that of another blowout and spill. Let's face it. We have no idea if any of these other 33 rigs are going by "the BP book" too, because MMS personel were replaced with oil company shills, who refused to regulate deepwater drilling. Let's fix the obvious problems first, THEN we can start drilling again, when we know that it is reasonably safe to do so.
    Last edited by danarhea; 06-23-10 at 03:31 PM.
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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    While it might have an impact, that impact would be negligable, compared to that of another blowout and spill. Let's face it. We have no idea if any of these other 33 rigs are going by "the BP book" too, because MMS personel were replaced with oil company shills, who refused to regulate deepwater drilling. Let's fix the obvious problems first, THEN we can start drilling again, when we know that it is reasonably safe to do so.
    You are ignoring that every one of those rigs has been reinspected since the BP blowout by the Department of the Interior, and they have all passed the safety inspections.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    You are ignoring that every one of those rigs has been reinspected since the BP blowout by the Department of the Interior, and they have all passed the safety inspections.
    And also, just to point out, if "drilling safety" was really the concern here, why does the moratorium ignore the 591 producing deepwater Gulf wells and only impact the 33 exploratory ones? If safety was the issue, wouldn't all the rigs be shut down in the name of "safety"?

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    That's most likely because the MMS was the most corrupt agency out there. However, just because the MMS wasn't doing its job properly, doesn't mean there weren't "issues of concern" prior to the oil rig explosion and subsequent underwater gusher.

    You don't have any clue about the history of the MMS, do you?
    No Glinda, I have NO IDEA the history of the MMS. I mean, I've only had it as part of my life since I was born! *rolling eyes* My father has worked for it for 40 years, no, I have no clue.

    The truth is, you posting that, shows YOU know nothing about the MMS. The scandals were in the accounting department thousands of miles away in Colorado. These scandals were NOT with the inspectors on the Gulf Coast. My dad, working for the MMS at the time, only learned about them through the media. He did not know a single person in that department, he doesn't deal with them. That's like saying because I was mistreated by a local cop, all local cops EVERYWHERE are crooked. Uh, no.

    Sorry boo, I forgot more about the MMS then you will ever know.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    And also, just to point out, if "drilling safety" was really the concern here, why does the moratorium ignore the 591 producing deepwater Gulf wells and only impact the 33 exploratory ones? If safety was the issue, wouldn't all the rigs be shut down in the name of "safety"?
    Because the exploratory ones are all deep water wells, and the ones being ignored are shallow water wells. There is a huge difference in technology required between deep water wells and shallow water wells. I have stated this before, but it seems that this piece of information is being ignored. But go ahead and keep lumping the two different kinds of wells into the same cubbyhole, and facts be damned. It is still misleading and dishonest.
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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    No Glinda, I have NO IDEA the history of the MMS. I mean, I've only had it as part of my life since I was born! *rolling eyes* My father has worked for it for 40 years, no, I have no clue.

    The truth is, you posting that, shows YOU know nothing about the MMS. The scandals were in the accounting department thousands of miles away in Colorado. These scandals were NOT with the inspectors on the Gulf Coast. My dad, working for the MMS at the time, only learned about them through the media. He did not know a single person in that department, he doesn't deal with them. That's like saying because I was mistreated by a local cop, all local cops EVERYWHERE are crooked. Uh, no.

    Sorry boo, I forgot more about the MMS then you will ever know.
    Evidently not.

    A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies. Staffers also used government computers to view pornography. In 2009 the regional supervisor of the Gulf region for MMS pled guilty and was sentenced to a year's probation in federal court for lying about receiving gifts from an offshore drilling contractor. "This deeply disturbing report is further evidence of the cozy relationship between MMS and the oil and gas industry," Salazar said
    You know where the Gulf region is, right?
    Last edited by Glinda; 06-24-10 at 01:15 PM.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Because the exploratory ones are all deep water wells, and the ones being ignored are shallow water wells. There is a huge difference in technology required between deep water wells and shallow water wells. I have stated this before, but it seems that this piece of information is being ignored. But go ahead and keep lumping the two different kinds of wells into the same cubbyhole, and facts be damned. It is still misleading and dishonest.
    I agree that there is a difference in technology, however from the LOGA report, it said
    The Presidential Order does not affect the 4,515 shallow-water wells, and it does not affect 591 producing deepwater Gulf wells.
    Now, in terms of rigs, there are more limits in place, but if safety in deepwater wells is the issue, why did it overlook 591 already producing ones?

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