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Thread: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Just because you "own" the area does not mean you can ignore your contractual obligations as you see fit. The government has signed contracts and agreements that these companies can operate in these areas, and they are bound by law to uphold those contracts.
    Rights are based on property. Say I am in my back yard and change the oil in my car, and I just throw the old oil onto the ground. Then along comes a rain and washes that oil over into my neighbor's yards, and his plants die, I am liable, and I am in breach of my contract as a citizen (I have broken the law).

    Same with BP - They run a reckless operation, and spilled oil from their lease washes up on OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY, then they have violated their agreement also, and are not entitled to keep the lease. Everybody has rights, as long as those rights do not infringe on the rights of others. BP only has rights up to the point they violate the rights of others. BP does not have the right to violate the property or rights of others.

    Now let's use a little logic here. Since BP screwed up deep water drilling, it is only natural that the OWNER of the properties in the Gulf, namely the Federal government, has the right to make sure that this does not happen again. That is where the moratorium for 6 months comes in. It is the same thing as being a landlord who has a bad tenant in an upstairs apartment, who continually overflows his bath tub, causing damage to the apartment below him. In this case (At least in Texas), the landlord has the right to seek an emergency eviction order, so that he can get rid of the tenant in the upstairs apartment, in the interest of the well being of the tenant in the lower apartment.

    By the same token, the owner of the leases, that is, the Federal government, is within its rights to order that drilling in deep water be stopped because of the possible danger it poses to properties on the coasts, until such time that the danger can be rectified, and also has the power to force BP to pay for the damages that BP caused to the property of others.
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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Yes, it's true. Every rig has small spills and flare ups. I will repeat, inspections prior to the explosion indicate no issues of concern.

    The Deepwater Horizon's record was so exemplary, according to MMS officials, that the rig was never on inspectors' informal "watch list" for problem rigs.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_578079.html

    Not sure if you understand this, but limited resources will cause inspectors to focus on rigs that are problematic. Just like a cop won't waste time trying to catch speeders in a zone not known for speeders when right down the road there is a zone notorious for drag racing. They're going to put their limited resources to the best possible use.

    Weather plays a huge part in inspections. There are days, even weeks, that go buy that allow almost no inspections to get done because it's just not safe to do. You have to fly in helicopters out over hundreds of miles of open water. Why risk your life to do that in bad weather for a rig that has an "exemplary" safety record? I'll say it again, hindsight is always 20-20. I never once saw any one complaining about the MMS utilizing their limited resources to watch out for problematic rigs before this explosion.
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 06-22-10 at 04:24 PM.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Sure...

    From a Department of Interior press release... (you will see the release posted on the main page)
    Thats good, but I'm talking about an across-the-board shut down of every rig on every well in US territorial waters until every last one can be determined to be safe.

    The report is somewhat unsettling because there are indications that the Horizon had a history of safety problems prior to this event.
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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Rights are based on property. Say I am in my back yard and change the oil in my car, and I just throw the old oil onto the ground. Then along comes a rain and washes that oil over into my neighbor's yards, and his plants die, I am liable, and I am in breach of my contract as a citizen (I have broken the law).

    Same with BP - They run a reckless operation, and spilled oil from their lease washes up on OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY, then they have violated their agreement also, and are not entitled to keep the lease. Everybody has rights, as long as those rights do not infringe on the rights of others. BP only has rights up to the point they violate the rights of others. BP does not have the right to violate the property or rights of others.
    I agree BP is going to be held liable, but it would depend on the language in the contract if they would forfeit the lease.. I would imagine that would have been clearly inserted somewhere in the language and if it was an issue, it would be an issue already.

    Now let's use a little logic here. Since BP screwed up deep water drilling, it is only natural that the OWNER of the properties in the Gulf, namely the Federal government, has the right to make sure that this does not happen again. That is where the moratorium for 6 months comes in. It is the same thing as being a landlord who has a bad tenant in an upstairs apartment, who continually overflows his bath tub, causing damage to the apartment below him. In this case (At least in Texas), the landlord has the right to seek an emergency eviction order, so that he can get rid of the tenant in the upstairs apartment, in the interest of the well being of the tenant in the lower apartment.
    It would again depend on the language of the lease...

    However, a more appropriate anaolgy going with your example would be that in a 4 plex, 1 tenant overflows their bathtub, so all tenants are suddenly banned from taking baths.

    By the same token, the owner of the leases, that is, the Federal government, is within its rights to order that drilling in deep water be stopped because of the possible danger it poses to properties on the coasts, until such time that the danger can be rectified, and also has the power to force BP to pay for the damages that BP caused to the property of others.
    They are not allowed to cancel contracts with other entities simply because some other group had a problem..the judge's point backed this up I think. He argued that just becuase BP had an accident, does not automatically mean other rigs will as well.

    In fact, as I posted earlier, the DOI has done an inspection of all of these rigs, and they were all found to have no major problems.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Thats good, but I'm talking about an across-the-board shut down of every rig on every well in US territorial waters until every last one can be determined to be safe.
    I do not think that is feasible. Even President Obama is not going this far. I would also point out that basically all of these rigs undergo routine inspections anyway pretty reguarly, so to reinspect everything would probably not really accomplish all that much.

    The report is somewhat unsettling because there are indications that the Horizon had a history of safety problems prior to this event.
    That sounds like a failure of government to enforce its own regulations then...which begs the questions, what good do more regulations do when you do not enforce the ones already on the books?

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    The oil industry at work. It's hard to have effective governance when corporations have more pull these days. I wonder what extras this judge got for his ruling.

    The "spill" (not even an accurate word for it anymore, more like the "gush") isn't even stopped yet and already people want to drill more.

    You know, if our environment collapses we deserve it, but the people behind it will be the last to suffer the consequences.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The oil industry at work. It's hard to have effective governance when corporations have more pull these days. I wonder what extras this judge got for his ruling.

    The "spill" (not even an accurate word for it anymore, more like the "gush") isn't even stopped yet and already people want to drill more.

    You know, if our environment collapses we deserve it, but the people behind it will be the last to suffer the consequences.
    Unless you have some evidence of a buy off of the judge, then your post is nothing but meaningless speculation. Post your evidence, or admit you have none.

    I have posted government reports confirming that the rigs effected by this moratorium have already been reinspected and passed with no problems. Why can't we allow working, recently inspected, rigs that had nothing to do with the deepwater incident to continue operating? There is no good reason.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The "spill" (not even an accurate word for it anymore, more like the "gush") isn't even stopped yet and already people want to drill more.
    The fire hadn't even gone out from the Colgan Air disaster last year killing 50 people and people were already wanting to keep flying on planes.

    Chill out, chicken little.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Unless you have some evidence of a buy off of the judge, then your post is nothing but meaningless speculation. Post your evidence, or admit you have none.

    I have posted government reports confirming that the rigs effected by this moratorium have already been reinspected and passed with no problems. Why can't we allow working, recently inspected, rigs that had nothing to do with the deepwater incident to continue operating? There is no good reason.
    Some people are just anti-business and no amount of rational thought will get to them.

    Of course a judge has to be bought off by big oil, it can't be the right thing to do to put more than 80,000 people back to work.

    Yo have to wonder how these type of people get through the day.
    Last edited by Mason66; 06-22-10 at 04:38 PM.

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    Re: Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Unless you have some evidence of a buy off of the judge, then your post is nothing but meaningless speculation. Post your evidence, or admit you have none.
    Oh please, open your damn eyes. That is how political process works these days. Corporations know how to work all branches of government. If the executive branch isn't listening, they'll just go to the judicial branch or the legislative branch. People are naive if they think that any moratorium against the oil industry will hold. They have the money of entire nations at their disposal and know how to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I have posted government reports confirming that the rigs effected by this moratorium have already been reinspected and passed with no problems. Why can't we allow working, recently inspected, rigs that had nothing to do with the deepwater incident to continue operating? There is no good reason.
    There is good reason. A full damage assessment of the BP spill would indicate what the true cost and risk are of off shore drilling and if it's worth it. If the coastline is going to be paying for the spill for the next 50+ years and local economy is going to be in the gutter, then I think that would justify a moratorium; or, in the least, a temporary ban until better disaster measures can be put into place.

    I don't care if those rigs pass inspection. All that means is that the technology is up to spec. It doesn't account for human error or recklessness. Who does the inspections? How secure are the inspections? For all we know people are being paid off.

    The last word we should be trusting is the word of oil companies. I want to see independent inspections and reviews from NGOs.

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