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Thread: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Civil1z@tion View Post
    The problem with this is if you use this terminology you're just going to confuse people used to traditional left-right views. Nobody in Europe views state communists as right wing or in the same statist category as far right fascist parties. It also fails to explain parties behavior in politics. Conservative Liberal parties (aka libertarians in American terminology) are more likely to ally with far right parties than state (or even anacho) communist ones while social liberals (close to the American version of liberal) are the opposite. Fascists are (a little) less statist than communists and both conservative and social liberals are way less statist than both, so under a left=anti-statist, right=pro-statist scheme both should prefer (slightly) fascists and both should really prefer anarcho communists, but this is not how they behave.
    In that case, you create a Y axis which is based on economic theory.

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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    There is a definition issue most of the posters trying to explain the difference in the European and US political scale.. it aint an European vs US difference.. it is a World vs US difference. US democrats would be a right wing party in any country on the planet or at best a center-right party and the Republicans would be a far right party.

    And the term liberal outside the US means the definition of the word, which is not the US definition. Sadly the Aussies some what and the Brits are following suit in bastardising the word Liberal to mean left wing communists.

    As for the "steep rise" in German left-wing criime.. compared to right wing crime it is nothing still. Also many people blame the right and companies for the financial crisis so it is only natural that the radicals on the left start to act up.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is a definition issue most of the posters trying to explain the difference in the European and US political scale.. it aint an European vs US difference.. it is a World vs US difference.
    Actually no, it's really European vs. US difference.
    US democrats would be a right wing party in any country on the planet or at best a center-right party and the Republicans would be a far right party.
    In North-Korea? In Iran? In Sudan? lol wut?
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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Actually no, it's really European vs. US difference.
    Wrong. Name a democratic country and a the main stream right wing party, and they have far more in common with the Democrats than the Republicans.

    In North-Korea? In Iran? In Sudan? lol wut?
    Okay any other democratic country on the planet.. thought that was implied but guess not for some.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    So the best way for me to grasp all the differences is to look at party ideology, leaning - and compare.
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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Actually no, it's really European vs. US difference.
    ?
    and based upon identity politics rather than any sort of reasonably consistent political ideology. The European identification with politics has become divorced from its traditional underpinnings due to the cult-like infatuation with multiculturalist dogmatism. The European left routinely defends any sort of archly conservative trampling of basic human rights as long as the originating source is one outside their own nominal culture, but since such attitudes are de rigueur for those who are highly conformist by nature, none ever seem to notice what it is they are actually championing. Being such conformists by nature, and little more than the mirror image of the fundies of the right, the fundies of the left routinely vilify any actual liberal who bases their opinions on the liberal tradition of individual rights instead of their own ingrained hypocritical double standards based upon culture. Since the cult of multiculturalism is predicated upon preserving the distinctness of immigrant communities living within liberal, western societies, what is actually being preserved isn't liberal attitudes, but archly conservative traditional values that arise from patriarchal tribal societies.

    The source of the difference between European and American definitions of left and right have more to do with the differences between Multiculturalism and the melting pot approach to society than anything else.
    Last edited by Gardener; 06-22-10 at 10:48 AM.
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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    and based upon identity politics rather than any sort of reasonably consistent political ideology. The European identification with politics has become divorced from its traditional underpinnings due to the cult-like infatuation with multiculturalist dogmatism. The European left routinely defends any sort of archly conservative trampling of basic human rights as long as the originating source is one outside their own nominal culture, but since such attitudes are de rigueur for those who are highly conformist by nature, none ever seem to notice what it is they are actually championing. Being such conformists by nature, and little more than the mirror image of the fundies of the right, the fundies of the left routinely vilify any actual liberal who bases their opinions on the liberal tradition of individual rights instead of their own ingrained hypocritical double standards based upon culture. Since the cult of multiculturalism is predicated upon preserving the distinctness of immigrant communities living within liberal, western societies, what is actually being preserved isn't liberal attitudes, but archly conservative traditional values that arise from patriarchal tribal societies.

    The source of the difference between European and American definitions of left and right have more to do with the differences between Multiculturalism and the melting pot approach to society than anything else.
    I suggest you stop confusing the UK with the rest of Europe, because none of what you say applies to the increasing trend AGAINST multiculturalism that is sweeping a lot of Western European nations.
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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I suggest you stop confusing the UK with the rest of Europe, because none of what you say applies to the increasing trend AGAINST multiculturalism that is sweeping a lot of Western European nations.
    The U.K. is certainly the worst example, but Sweden and others aren't far behind. Sure, Denmark, Holland and others are starting to come to their senses, but I don't think that means the European left has abandoned its dogmatism on the subject so much as it is that more Europeans have given up supporting the left.
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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Well, for starters, I would advise you stop using the word "liberal" as synonymous with "left wing". The Euopean left is decidedly illiberal in its politics, and the actual liberals are considered conservative there.
    Yea the rest of the world views "left/right" a bit differently. Just look at what the Liberal Party of Australia believes, they might as well be helmed by Rush Limbaugh.

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    Re: Steep rise in German left-wing crime reported, but no terror wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    The U.K. is certainly the worst example, but Sweden and others aren't far behind. Sure, Denmark, Holland and others are starting to come to their senses, but I don't think that means the European left has abandoned its dogmatism on the subject so much as it is that more Europeans have given up supporting the left.
    I don't think it's so much they've given up supporting the left, but that they're increasingly supporting laws that protect national identity. In all other aspects, left-wing Europeans still cling to their political ideals.
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