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Thread: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

  1. #171
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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It all boils down the vision as to the role of the Govt. and no Libertarian can support what Obama is doing. No Libertarian can support providing indefinite unemployment payments. There is nothing in the Constitution that promotes individualistic policies other than promote the general welfare and govt. does that by creating incentive for individual wealth creation, i.e. tax rate cuts. That puts more money into the hands of the individual taxpayer and that promotes job creation.
    They didn't do a very good job at reining in the religious right, controlling government spending under bush.. and despite all the tax cuts Bush Jr has a very very poor job creation record. I have firm belief that when the market is doing well government should bugger off.. when it is doing bad it needs to intervene. Spending to help the people in bad times cutting spending in good times.

    Taxation putting more money in the hands of people who are already billionaires does not help the people and trickle down economics hasn't been the boon to the middle class it was touted it would. Where the gap between the wealthy and the poor is growing, the middle class disappearing some redistributive policy would likely have a greater effect then letting billionaires who invest in foreign markets get off without paying any taxes.

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    The last few responses exemplify why it is a waste of time to have a discussion with you. You go from "UI undermines incentive" to " your not a true libertarian". Pathetic
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    Sounds like a typical redistribution of wealth advocate! I suggest going to BEA.gov and use all the tools there to determine economic results and then go to BLS.gov to check out job creation. Those sites are non partisan and present a different picture than you are receiving from the media.

    There is no justification to redistribute wealth as it takes aways personal responsibility and ignores the reality that rich people with their spending, savings, and investments help grow the job markets. If the gap is growing between the rich and the poor then the question is why? Rich people take advantage of incentives whereas poor people continue to wait on help from others. You don't seem to understand our economy and judge everyone else by your own standards. Not all poor people have the incentive, drive, or willingness to work hard and get out of their position. I once was poor and worked hard, if I can do it, so can others. This is a country of equal opportunity, not equal outcome which liberals want to try an legislate. Trickle down economics is the only economic policy that makes any sense and works. The results are there even you to see. Go to the sites and then get back to me. Until then your words are just that, liberal talking points that distort reality.

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    Pointing out your inconsistencies is relevant to the discussion. You ignore actual results to focus on theory again and your opinions. You claim to be a Libertarian then support liberal policies. Makes no sense to anyone paying attention. The fact remains the Libertarian platform does not support anything Obama is doing and you know it thus your diversion from that reality. Show me where Libertarians support indefinite unemployment insurance payout as that is what Obama is trying to do and what this whole thread is all about.

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sounds like a typical redistribution of wealth advocate! I suggest going to BEA.gov and use all the tools there to determine economic results and then go to BLS.gov to check out job creation. Those sites are non partisan and present a different picture than you are receiving from the media.

    There is no justification to redistribute wealth as it takes aways personal responsibility and ignores the reality that rich people with their spending, savings, and investments help grow the job markets. If the gap is growing between the rich and the poor then the question is why? Rich people take advantage of incentives whereas poor people continue to wait on help from others. You don't seem to understand our economy and judge everyone else by your own standards. Not all poor people have the incentive, drive, or willingness to work hard and get out of their position. I once was poor and worked hard, if I can do it, so can others. This is a country of equal opportunity, not equal outcome which liberals want to try an legislate. Trickle down economics is the only economic policy that makes any sense and works. The results are there even you to see. Go to the sites and then get back to me. Until then your words are just that, liberal talking points that distort reality.
    Are you seriously accusing me of this? I have yet to make any personal statements regarding my beliefs. I'm out; its like having a discussion with a blowfish.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    LOL, run, baby, run!! It is obvious to me that you do not understand how our economy works and I stand by that statement.

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sounds like a typical redistribution of wealth advocate! I suggest going to BEA.gov and use all the tools there to determine economic results and then go to BLS.gov to check out job creation. Those sites are non partisan and present a different picture than you are receiving from the media.

    There is no justification to redistribute wealth as it takes aways personal responsibility and ignores the reality that rich people with their spending, savings, and investments help grow the job markets. If the gap is growing between the rich and the poor then the question is why? Rich people take advantage of incentives whereas poor people continue to wait on help from others. You don't seem to understand our economy and judge everyone else by your own standards. Not all poor people have the incentive, drive, or willingness to work hard and get out of their position. I once was poor and worked hard, if I can do it, so can others. This is a country of equal opportunity, not equal outcome which liberals want to try an legislate. Trickle down economics is the only economic policy that makes any sense and works. The results are there even you to see. Go to the sites and then get back to me. Until then your words are just that, liberal talking points that distort reality.
    I am already very familiar with conservative arguments against egalitarian redistributive models. Currently however your unemployment levels are to high and the fear being spread by the right is that more social spending will cause inflationary pressures. This is false and inflation really only becomes an issue when unemployment hits 4-5%. Till then economic stimulus does not hurt.

    I don't particularly care about equal outcomes or any of that I don't entertain ideological arguments that brought this mess. You need your economy to be fully fixed before you go around pounding your chest about welfare bums. The job creation needed should be in manufacturing exports and not min wage food industry jobs. All this crap about GOP reining in spending is partisan and politically motivated so republicans have something to cry about in the fall. The economy is only just now coming out of the mess it was in it is to early for austerity measures .. on the unemployed.. I can't disregard the republicans cutting back stimulus to the market yet.

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    I am already very familiar with conservative arguments against egalitarian redistributive models. Currently however your unemployment levels are to high and the fear being spread by the right is that more social spending will cause inflationary pressures. This is false and inflation really only becomes an issue when unemployment hits 4-5%. Till then economic stimulus does not hurt.
    You seem very familiar with the argument but not so familiar with the reality of what too much govt. spending does to the value of the dollar. All this spending cannot be sustained and the amount of debt today is unsustainable and that is what the govt. Does. Show me a Government program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and went away? Once govt. creates a program it never goes away. Soon the debt service will exceed the amount spent on the Defense Dept. each year.

    I don't particularly care about equal outcomes or any of that I don't entertain ideological arguments that brought this mess. You need your economy to be fully fixed before you go around pounding your chest about welfare bums. The job creation needed should be in manufacturing exports and not min wage food industry jobs. All this crap about GOP reining in spending is partisan and politically motivated so republicans have something to cry about in the fall. The economy is only just now coming out of the mess it was in it is to early for austerity measures .. on the unemployed.. I can't disregard the republicans cutting back stimulus to the market yet.
    Yes, we need the economy fixed and the govt. isn’t the answer, never was, and never will be. That isn’t the role of the govt. but that is the role you want it to be. Continue to buy the Administration rhetoric and ignore the Administration results. Months after Bush took office the cry was “where are the jobs?” When Bush left office there were 11 million unemployed people, now after a trillion dollar stimulus plan there are over 15 million(BLS.gov) I hardly call that a successful stimulus yet now some are calling for more govt. spending. Personal responsibility doesn’t seem to exist in the liberal world. It is going to be the private sector that gets us out of this mess not the govt.

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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You seem very familiar with the argument but not so familiar with the reality of what too much govt. spending does to the value of the dollar. All this spending cannot be sustained and the amount of debt today is unsustainable and that is what the govt. Does. Show me a Government program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and went away? Once govt. creates a program it never goes away. Soon the debt service will exceed the amount spent on the Defense Dept. each year.



    Yes, we need the economy fixed and the govt. isn’t the answer, never was, and never will be. That isn’t the role of the govt. but that is the role you want it to be. Continue to buy the Administration rhetoric and ignore the Administration results. Months after Bush took office the cry was “where are the jobs?” When Bush left office there were 11 million unemployed people, now after a trillion dollar stimulus plan there are over 15 million(BLS.gov) I hardly call that a successful stimulus yet now some are calling for more govt. spending. Personal responsibility doesn’t seem to exist in the liberal world. It is going to be the private sector that gets us out of this mess not the govt.
    It is to early to start crying about government debt and the like when the spending that was required to keep these people with some income was a tiny microscopic bit in comparison to the amount of debt accumulated via deficit spending that tax cuts brought to the table.

    Spending cuts on unemployment/economic stimulus are to early. That is all I'm saying after a recovery unemployment spending cuts make more sense. This move by the GOP is partisan and politically motivated. The draft they voted down was cut in half by the democrats in hopes of getting a few votes of support. The republicans acted in solidarity so they are acting as a group in a partisan manner despite their constituents that might be negatively effected by their vote.

  10. #180
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    Re: Obama says GOP making life harder for the jobless

    Really, tax cuts brought debt to the table? Provide proof of that please because BEA.gov and the U.S. Treasury Dept. numbers prove differently. Where do you get your information? Seems that tax cuts brought more govt. revenue to the table so how can that be?

    As for what the Republicans did, during difficult times difficult decisions have to be made. The GOP made a tough decision. I support it.

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