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Thread: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    How does buying used American choppers create jobs in America? They're already built. There's no chopper dealership that will make a few bucks selling them. The spare parts are already stacked in warehouses, already built. Anything they need over there they'll be going from stock or building themselves.

    This thread is a great way to find the true partisans.

    edit: Unless you want the Afghanis flying brand new state of the art America hardware... at many times the price. So much for too much spending!
    It wouldn't create new jobs, at least not directly, but it would have reinvested the money back into the U.S. economy rather than into the economy of Russia. Just a stupid move.

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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Im sorry american hardware for the afghan army? Can anyone spell almost impossible to sustain or even build? American hardware doesn't make logistical sense. First of all afghans cant fuel or repair or pilot american hardware, supplying the fueling infrastructure and spare parts ordering and shipping would be insurmountable. Like virtually impossible given the money available. Russian hardware makes sense.

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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It wouldn't create new jobs, at least not directly, but it would have reinvested the money back into the U.S. economy rather than into the economy of Russia. Just a stupid move.
    The only way this could be stupid is politically. The Mi17 variants are larger, have a little more lifting capacity, more cargo capacity, a bit higher ceiling. The Iroquois is a military variant - but let's just look at this pragmatically. These are going to Afghanistan which borders on --- wait for it -- RUSSIA!! Just the loading, logistics, shipping, and delivery from the U.S. to Afghanistan would be difficult and probably very expensive. It's easier and I would assume, less expensive for Mi17's to be shipped and delivered to Afghanistan from Russia.

    I would have loved to see U.S. manufacture helo's go to Afghanistan, but I totally understand why they went with Mi17's instead, and it's almost a no brainer.
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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The only way this could be stupid is politically. The Mi17 variants are larger, have a little more lifting capacity, more cargo capacity, a bit higher ceiling. The Iroquois is a military variant - but let's just look at this pragmatically. These are going to Afghanistan which borders on --- wait for it -- RUSSIA!! Just the loading, logistics, shipping, and delivery from the U.S. to Afghanistan would be difficult and probably very expensive. It's easier and I would assume, less expensive for Mi17's to be shipped and delivered to Afghanistan from Russia.

    I would have loved to see U.S. manufacture helo's go to Afghanistan, but I totally understand why they went with Mi17's instead, and it's almost a no brainer.
    It's really weird because these people would usually never question any sort of military spending.
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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Russian helicopters are simply a better value. Unless you need fancy electronics, blackhawks are just overpriced 70's tech.
    And you make this assertion based on your vast knowledge and experience with Black Hawk helicopters? Most likely the primary reason is that the available maintenance expertise leans toward Russion helicopters. Training maintenance techs is expensive and time consuming.
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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    And you make this assertion based on your vast knowledge and experience with Black Hawk helicopters? Most likely the primary reason is that the available maintenance expertise leans toward Russion helicopters. Training maintenance techs is expensive and time consuming.
    Other countries have reached the same conclusion. Thailand is buying mi-17 over blackhawks because of they cost at least 1/2 as much with about double the troop capacity. While the blackhawk has options for advanced electronics and can match the mi-17 on load capacity, its overpriced and under performing for the role in which most smaller nations need helicopters. Helicopters are mostly used in less developed militaries to haul around people with the occasional unguided rocket attack. The UH-60 was built for American requirements, and it isn't optimized for the role in which the Afghani's want to use them.

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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Other countries have reached the same conclusion. Thailand is buying mi-17 over blackhawks because of they cost at least 1/2 as much with about double the troop capacity. While the blackhawk has options for advanced electronics and can match the mi-17 on load capacity, its overpriced and under performing for the role in which most smaller nations need helicopters. Helicopters are mostly used in less developed militaries to haul around people with the occasional unguided rocket attack. The UH-60 was built for American requirements, and it isn't optimized for the role in which the Afghani's want to use them.
    That's right, American requirements. BTW, it's a Black Hawk, not a blackhawk. At least learn that. It's also a true military helicopter, with a lot of technology incorporated in the fundamental design that your won't find in the Mi-17.
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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    As opposed to how many UH-1 Iroquois Huey's?
    Do we still make that?

    If you can fly a helicopter you can fly a huey.
    LOL> So apparently all helicopters operate the same way, with the same controls and same procedures?

    How much of a pain is it to put some boxes on a cargo plane?
    Do you know why it costs the government something like $20 to ship a gallon of gasoline to Afghanistan? Why it costs outrageous amounts to get powdered eggs over there?

    One of the largest costs of Afghanistan is just getting stuff there. If we can get it shipped by the Russians from Russia through relatively safer areas like the various -istans rather then pakistan, we should do it. This is a no-brainer.

    EDIT: Correction, it costs the government $400 to ship a single gallon of gas into afghanistan.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...n-afghanistan-

    That ALONE justifies buying Russian.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 06-22-10 at 02:58 AM.
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    Re: U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's right, American requirements. BTW, it's a Black Hawk, not a blackhawk. At least learn that. It's also a true military helicopter, with a lot of technology incorporated in the fundamental design that your won't find in the Mi-17.
    Which is overpriced to the majority of buyers. Did you not understand what he was talking about?

    Why would you spend a huge sum of cash on a single high powered, tech-ed up helicopter that you won't even use to 50% of its capabilities when you can get THREE, count em THREE Russian helicopters that 1) your pilots already know how to use 2) are easier to maintain 3) have less things that can go wrong and 4) actually meet the requirements you need?

    Why get a Blackhawk when you don't need its capabilities?

    Do you get a Lotus when you're looking for a Civic? No. Because the Lotus is overpriced to your needs. Seriously, this isn't hard.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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