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After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overturn

Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Korimyr the Rat said:
Upholding the moral values of the citizens is within the State's interests. In order to overturn Prop 8, the lawyers have to demonstrate that allowing same sex marriage is consistent with those moral values.
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Considering that the California constitution considers sexual orientation a protected class for equal treatment, I'd say it's very clearly in the state's moral values to treat gays and lesibans as equals.

In essense, Prop. 8 creates a conundrum in the state Constitution where you have one clause calling for equal protection for gays, and another specifically withholding rights from them.

The voters have created their own constitutional crisis - but I'm not surprised, because that's what you get when you can amend your constitution at the whim of any special interest.

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I would also argue that it's inherently worse in California, because unlike other states with constitutional amendments, this actually DID take the right away from a class of people instead of simply denying it.
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

FilmFestGuy said:
Considering that the California constitution considers sexual orientation a protected class for equal treatment, I'd say it's very clearly in the state's moral values to treat gays and lesibans as equals.

In essense, Prop. 8 creates a conundrum in the state Constitution where you have one clause calling for equal protection for gays, and another specifically withholding rights from them.

The voters have created their own constitutional crisis - but I'm not surprised, because that's what you get when you can amend your constitution at the whim of any special interest.

__

I would also argue that it's inherently worse in California, because unlike other states with constitutional amendments, this actually DID take the right away from a class of people instead of simply denying it.
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Voted on by the people. Twice.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

texmaster said:
Voted on by the people. Twice.
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People can't vote away protected individual rights.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Boo Radley said:
People can't vote away protected individual rights.
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There is no right to marriage.........Its a privilege that every man and woman in this country have.......Gays want a special privilege........
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
There is no right to marriage.........Its a privilege that every man and woman in this country have.......Gays want a special privilege........
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US Supreme court disagrees
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
Gays want a special privilege........
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No, they want equality and gay marriage will provide that because then straight people such as yourself can marry a homosexual. That's equality.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
There is no right to marriage.........Its a privilege that every man and woman in this country have.......Gays want a special privilege........
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What special privilege do gay people want Navy?
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
There is no right to marriage.........Its a privilege that every man and woman in this country have.......Gays want a special privilege........
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U.S. Constitution:

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
There is no right to marriage.........Its a privilege that every man and woman in this country have.......Gays want a special privilege........
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Horse ****. If I can't marry the consenting non related single adult of my choice, I'm deny equal rights. Nothing special about them.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
There is no right to marriage.........Its a privilege that every man and woman in this country have.......Gays want a special privilege........
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No, Navy...they want the exact same contract with their one, irreplaceable person in this world with all the same benefits, immunities, and responsibilities that you have. There's nothing "special" or separate about it. It's exactly what you have now.

And let me ask you something: Why the **** do you care what they do anyway?
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
There is no right to marriage.........Its a privilege that every man and woman in this country have.......Gays want a special privilege........
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Exactly. And the 14 amendment guarantees them equal protection when seeking this special privilege.

Glad to see you're finally catching on. Keep up the good work.:2wave::2wave:

BTW - if the privilege of marriage is so 'special' why do so many heterosexuals take it for granted and screw it up with a 50% divorce rate.:confused:
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

SCOTUS, Loving v. Virginia: "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival."

Somehow that translates into a "privilege" for some people.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Navy Pride said:
Gays want a special privilege........
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Yeah, just like Blacks wanted to go to the same school as whites, gays want to go up to same window at City Hall, and fill out the same form...

How you define marriage happens in the ceremony and the lifetime that follows. Nobody wants to redefine your marriage or tell you what marriage means. (And at a 50% success rate, the straights don't really have a leg to stand on.) Gays just want the right to have the same happiness that straights do. The time has come to move forward on this issue. Hopefully the federal courts will make that happen.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

texmaster said:
Voted on by the people. Twice.
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Voted on by people who once voted: gays are equal. Then voted later in the same constitution to say: no, they're not.

The voters created their own constitutional crisis. It's an invtitation to the Courts to HAVE to interpret it. Again, this is what you get when you allow any special interest (the Morman Church, in this case) with enough money access to your state's foundational document, you'll get a ****-ton of lunacy.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

FilmFestGuy said:
Voted on by people who once voted: gays are equal. Then voted later in the same constitution to say: no, they're not.

The voters created their own constitutional crisis. It's an invtitation to the Courts to HAVE to interpret it. Again, this is what you get when you allow any special interest (the Morman Church, in this case) with enough money access to your state's foundational document, you'll get a ****-ton of lunacy.
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LOL What are you talking about? The people voted against gay marriage. A pro gay marriage judge overturned it. The people AGAIN voted against gay marriage. Now the pro gay marriage crowd is looking for another round of judicial activism and bypass the send proposition voted on by the people.

You are the ones wanting to circumvent the law. Not the majority of the people who voted against it.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

texmaster said:
LOL What are you talking about? The people voted against gay marriage. A pro gay marriage judge overturned it. The people AGAIN voted against gay marriage. Now the pro gay marriage crowd is looking for another round of judicial activism and bypass the send proposition voted on by the people.

You are the ones wanting to circumvent the law. Not the majority of the people who voted against it.
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Our Constitution gives the courts the power to overturn even votes that enacted unconstitutional laws. Just because it was voted on by "the people" doesn't mean it was constitutional in the least.

You're going to have to learn to deal with the fact that the fight won't stop until rights are equal.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Jall is absolutely correct. Regardless, I don't believe for a second that the majority of people in California are against gay marriage. Prop 8 was failing by a large margin until the Mormon church threw millions of dollars into a deceitful and ugly campaign that told some of the biggest lies I have ever seen in a political campaign. The tactics of the mormon church to manipulate people to pass prop 8 was disgusting. Had it not been for the lies and distortion, prop 8 would have failed miserably.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

disneydude said:
Jall is absolutely correct. Regardless, I don't believe for a second that the majority of people in California are against gay marriage. Prop 8 was failing by a large margin until the Mormon church threw millions of dollars into a deceitful and ugly campaign that told some of the biggest lies I have ever seen in a political campaign. The tactics of the mormon church to manipulate people to pass prop 8 was disgusting. Had it not been for the lies and distortion, prop 8 would have failed miserably.
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I also blame people for being stupid in all that, too. Also, if it hadn't been for an Obama candidacy, a lot of people who wouldn't normally have voted turned out in force for that reason once they got riled up by the Mormons telling them that homos were going to ban moms and dads, force everyone to stop using gender specific pronouns, dine on kittens to celebrate the defeat of prop 8, steal the sun, and bring about the 4th Reich.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

jallman said:
Our Constitution gives the courts the power to overturn even votes that enacted unconstitutional laws. Just because it was voted on by "the people" doesn't mean it was constitutional in the least.

You're going to have to learn to deal with the fact that the fight won't stop until rights are equal.
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They give that power based on law not personal feelings.

and no matter how many times you stamp your feet, it has never been ruled a right under the law for homosexuals.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

texmaster said:
They give that power based on law not personal feelings.
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Exactly.

and no matter how many times you stamp your feet, it has never been ruled a right under the law for homosexuals.
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WRONG! It was ruled a right in California, Mass., Hawaii, Vermont.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Oh, I forgot one...add Iowa to that list, too.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

It has been ruled not a "right" my more states. Regardless...

The debate is about the definition of marriage. People who are against gay marriage aren't homophobes, bigots, or against equality. We define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, nothing bigoted about that. I am all for civil union benefits and some kind of legal status for gay couples, but I won't allow it to be called marriage or recognized as such. California voted to define marriage, not to ban homosexuality. Californians voted, and the majority voted to define marriage as a union between a man and woman. It is bigoted to impose the definition that marriage is between any consenting adult upon the majority who voted to define it as a union between a man and woman.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

jallman said:
Exactly.



WRONG! It was ruled a right in California, Mass., Hawaii, Vermont.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
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LOL Wrong again. Show me the law that states that. Thats what I said in my statement, not a judge's interpretation of the law. The actual law.

Damn you are fun :D
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
it has been ruled not a "right" my more states. Regardless...

The debate is about the definition of marriage. People who are against gay marriage aren't homophobes, bigots, or against equality. We define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, nothing bigoted about that. I am all for civil union benefits and some kind of legal status for gay couples, but i won't allow it to be called marriage or recognized as such. California voted to define marriage, not to ban homosexuality. Californians voted, and the majority voted to define marriage as a union between a man and woman. It is bigoted to impose the definition that marriage is between any consenting adult upon the majority who voted to define it as a union between a man and woman.
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very well said.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Sadly, there is a lot of truth to that. A lot of the black church-goers were mislead by the Mormon hate campaign.
 
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