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After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overturn

Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

CaptainCourtesy said:
Poor analogy. There are physical characteristics that prevent birds and fish from living in the same environment.
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If you're telling me that a couple of guys can get together, borrow somebody else's kids, and call that a successful marriage/family, then you are wrong. It's like painting an apple yellow and calling it a lemon. Sorry but some things are not meant to be.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
If you're telling me that a couple of guys can get together, borrow somebody else's kids, and call that a successful marriage/family, then you are wrong. It's like painting an apple yellow and calling it a lemon. Sorry but some things are not meant to be.
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And if you're telling me that any two guys can get together, and adopt a child and give it a loving and caring environment to grow up and that, that is wrong, when heterosexual couples can adopt a child, and abuse it and they're morally superior because dick goes in *****... well sir I am gobsmacked
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
If you're telling me that a couple of guys can get together, borrow somebody else's kids, and call that a successful marriage/family, then you are wrong. It's like painting an apple yellow and calling it a lemon. Sorry but some things are not meant to be.
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Actually, I am telling you just that, and all the research proves my position correct. All you've got on your side is unsubstantiated opinion... which is pretty worthless when it comes to trying to prove your position.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, I am telling you just that, and all the research proves my position correct. All you've got on your side is unsubstantiated opinion... which is pretty worthless when it comes to trying to prove your position.
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All the research ... meaning one single dubious study about lesbians. Wow, the scientific evidence is underwhelming.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Jetboogieman said:
And if you're telling me that any two guys can get together, and adopt a child and give it a loving and caring environment to grow up and that, that is wrong, when heterosexual couples can adopt a child, and abuse it and they're morally superior because dick goes in *****... well sir I am gobsmacked
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Yes, we heteros are all child abusers. Right, got it.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Yes, we heteros are all child abusers. Right, got it.
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Sarcasm clearly isn't your forte. If you're suggesting that all gays are incapable of raising a child and being just as much of a happy family as a hetero couple... then my argument makes complete sense...
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Jetboogieman said:
Sarcasm clearly isn't your forte. If you're suggesting that all gays are incapable of raising a child and being just as much of a happy family as a hetero couple... then my argument makes complete sense...
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And straw man arguments are clearly your forte. Nobody is stopping gays from doing anything. The problem is in forcing everybody else to redefine marriage for their benefit. If they only way gays can be happy is by forcing me to accept their relationships, then that's just too bad. And yes I'm being forced, if we're redefining marriage, or giving marriage benefits/tax breaks to gay couples.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
And straw man arguments are clearly your forte. Nobody is stopping gays from doing anything. The problem is in forcing everybody else to redefine marriage for their benefit. If they only way gays can be happy is by forcing me to accept their relationships, then that's just too bad. And yes I'm being forced, if we're redefining marriage, or giving marriage benefits/tax breaks to gay couples.
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Why should we be forced to use your definition of marriage? If you think the Christian definition is the only definition, or even the original definition, then you are dead wrong.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

ScottD said:
Why should we be forced to use your definition of marriage? If you think the Christian definition is the only definition, or even the original definition, then you are dead wrong.
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Simply put, because my definition is the correct one. Pointing out that Greeks were gay (and yes they were also pedophiles) doesn't disprove the definition. In fact, the exception proves the rule. I'm not without sympathy. It's not all about penises and anuses. In fact, one of my siblings is gay. I just don't see a reason to destroy an important social institution because of it.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
They have no right to overturn prop 8. This would be a giant smack to the face of democracy. the people voted and prop 8 set marriage as a man and woman in California. How dare they do this, if it is overturned this would just be a disgrace to democracy and a defeat for the rights of voters.
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So you're okay with whatever the democracy wants? That the majority should be free do legislate whatever it wants?

So, if the voters wanted to execute everyone with the user name Digsbe, you'd be okay with that?
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
All the research ... meaning one single dubious study about lesbians. Wow, the scientific evidence is underwhelming.
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Actually there are scores of research studies out there that prove you wrong, and not one that proves you right. I've posted MANY in the past... in fact 12 yesterday on another thread.

Therefore, your point is negated.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Simply put, because my definition is the correct one.
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In your opinion. Folks like you keep forgetting that you have opinions, not facts.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

obvious Child said:
So you're okay with whatever the democracy wants? That the majority should be free do legislate whatever it wants?

So, if the voters wanted to execute everyone with the user name Digsbe, you'd be okay with that?
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Straw man argument.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

CaptainCourtesy said:
Straw man argument.
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Perhaps so, but required to show that the belief in that whatever the majority says is correct is faulty is required. Disgbe has argued explictly that it is wrong to overturn what voters choose. Except that sometimes voters choose to enact very bad laws that are questionablly unconstutional. Just because the majority says A doesn't make A right.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

obvious Child said:
Perhaps so, but required to show that the belief in that whatever the majority says is correct is faulty is required. Disgbe has argued explictly that it is wrong to overturn what voters choose. Except that sometimes voters choose to enact very bad laws that are questionablly unconstutional. Just because the majority says A doesn't make A right.
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I think there are several factors to consider in voter decisions, and the constitutionality of a decision is the most important when it comes to overturning it. Other than that reason, I am pretty much against overturning voter decisions, no matter how stupid and uninformed they may be. As long as they are constitutional, they should probably stand.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

CaptainCourtesy said:
I think there are several factors to consider in voter decisions, and the constitutionality of a decision is the most important when it comes to overturning it. Other than that reason, I am pretty much against overturning voter decisions, no matter how stupid and uninformed they may be. As long as they are constitutional, they should probably stand.
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I don't disagree with you there, but the argument Disgbe gave was "majority = right."
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

obvious Child said:
I don't disagree with you there, but the argument Disgbe gave was "majority = right."
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Well, we know that is not necessarily correct, The question is, does the statement "majority=constitutionality" apply.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
And straw man arguments are clearly your forte. Nobody is stopping gays from doing anything. The problem is in forcing everybody else to redefine marriage for their benefit. If they only way gays can be happy is by forcing me to accept their relationships, then that's just too bad. And yes I'm being forced, if we're redefining marriage, or giving marriage benefits/tax breaks to gay couples.
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False. Gays are stopped from marrying the person of their choice. In some states, gays are stopped from adopting or fostering.

No one is trying to force you to do anything. We are trying to convince the courts to change the laws, but you are perfectly welcome to keep your opinions.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
They have no right to overturn prop 8. This would be a giant smack to the face of democracy. the people voted and prop 8 set marriage as a man and woman in California. How dare they do this, if it is overturned this would just be a disgrace to democracy and a defeat for the rights of voters.
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Welcome to America where we have this document called the Constitution. Californians can amend their state Constitution to throw out people of Asian descent if they'd like. That doesn't make it legal or defensible against the document our forefathers crafted for us.

What you speak of is mob rule - not American-style democracy. Our forefathers were wise enough to create a document that defends the minority from the tyranny of the majority - or "the angry mob".
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

FilmFestGuy said:
Welcome to America where we have this document called the Constitution. Californians can amend their state Constitution to throw out people of Asian descent if they'd like. That doesn't make it legal or defensible against the document our forefathers crafted for us.

What you speak of is mob rule - not American-style democracy. Our forefathers were wise enough to create a document that defends the minority from the tyranny of the majority - or "the angry mob".
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Yes, and Californian's voted to prevent gay marriage. What is going on now is a court battle saying "well, it's really not legal in the first place to ban gay marriage." They are trying to overturn a decision made by voters because those who wanted gay marriage didn't get their way. It's legislating from the bench and it will be a defeat for democracy and freedom if prop 8 gets overturned. People can support gay marriage, but what is going on in the court is truly shameful.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
Yes, and Californian's voted to prevent gay marriage. What is going on now is a court battle saying "well, it's really not legal in the first place to ban gay marriage." They are trying to overturn a decision made by voters because those who wanted gay marriage didn't get their way. It's legislating from the bench and it will be a defeat for democracy and freedom if prop 8 gets overturned. People can support gay marriage, but what is going on in the court is truly shameful.
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Ever hear the phrase "tyranny of the majority"?

The idea that every judicial decision that we disagree with is "activist judges" or "legislating from the bench" is just silly.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
it will be a defeat for democracy and freedom if prop 8 gets overturned.
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I don't think I would exactly use the freedom there.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Toothpicvic said:
Wait, so guys who have doggy style with their wives aren't really married because "sticking it in the pooper is an "abberation"".? lolwut?

Using a toothbrush to clean a toilet is a "cleaning product abberation". The purpose of a toothbrush is to brush your teeth, not clean someone's skid marks out of a nasty toilet - that's just common sense.

If you want to clean the other way, that's your problem. But don't expect me to call it "cleaning". It's an abberation from the norm. Oh My!
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damn I use old toothbrushes to clean the bolt on my M4 carbine. In fact they sell toothbrushes in gun cleaning supply kits!!
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

TurtleDude said:
damn I use old toothbrushes to clean the bolt on my M4 carbine. In fact they sell toothbrushes in gun cleaning supply kits!!
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Proof! You are an abomination!
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Redress said:
Ever hear the phrase "tyranny of the majority"?

The idea that every judicial decision that we disagree with is "activist judges" or "legislating from the bench" is just silly.
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What? You don't think basic civil rights of a minority should be decided with a 50.1% vote from the majority? That's outrageous I tell you!
 
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