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Thread: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overturn

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    My beliefs say that my kids should be raised in a culture free of exposure to sexual excesses and perversions. Just like they should be free from fear of rape, robbery or murder. Like I said above, the pro-GM argument remains, "we want it, we must have it, therefore it's ours." There is no compelling argument, since gays already have nearly all rights of married couples. The real difference is in name only, which puts a lie to the whole "because we love each other" argument.

    You've given no reasons whatsoever why millions of years of evolution, and thousands of years of culture, should be turned on its head for the sake of a few misfits.
    Where do you draw the line? Watched TV lately? How about the internet? What you define as sexual excess and perversion are singlular to you and yours. By all means, restrict yourself. Hide away. Pretend. But don't think you have the right in a free country to impose your standard on others. You don't.

    As for my reasons, simple, this is a free country where all people are created equal. Rape, murde, and robbery are not illegal because we don't like them. They're illegal because we can show harm, real and clear harm to another. Remember your rights stop at my nose. Same here. You have the rigth to set and live by your standards, but you are not free to impose them on me or anyone else without showing just cause.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    You've given no reasons whatsoever why millions of years of evolution, and thousands of years of culture, should be turned on its head for the sake of a few misfits.
    Conversely, why should people be denied the fundamental right to marry someone they love because of some old bigots who think it's icky?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    My beliefs say that my kids should be raised in a culture free of exposure to sexual excesses and perversions. Just like they should be free from fear of rape, robbery or murder. Like I said above, the pro-GM argument remains, "we want it, we must have it, therefore it's ours." There is no compelling argument, since gays already have nearly all rights of married couples. The real difference is in name only, which puts a lie to the whole "because we love each other" argument.

    You've given no reasons whatsoever why millions of years of evolution, and thousands of years of culture, should be turned on its head for the sake of a few misfits.
    This is 100% false on top of being hysterical and histrionic right from the beginning. The very first sentence attempts to indirectly assert an association between homosexuals and rape, sexual excess, and perversion. Then the poster goes right on to state, with dishonesty, that homosexuals have every right that heterosexuals have except the name of marriage. Followed up by marginalizing the homosexual community by calling them "misfits".


    It never ceases to amaze me how his type reveal themselves with such abandon when they have their pitiful attempts at reasoned and measured argument crushed. The cracks show and the true agenda of bigotry, ignorance and hatefulness rears it's head.

    But it's ok...his type is rapidly becoming less and less accepted in modern society. I am sure you will find plenty of them standing around a bon fire in some backwoods, swamp adjacent trailer park drinking their pabst, but anywhere that people breed outside their family bloodlines as a norm...he would not be accepted.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, you are not. Standing up for one's rights is not the same as denying rights to others. You keep your rights. If same sex couples marry, nothing happens to your rights at all. Nothing. Therefore, there is no imposing on you at all. None. However, you deny them rights, and that is an imposition.
    So anything anyone considers a "right" it is wrong to deny them of it? What about the right of pedophiles and those who practice bestiality? What about their "right" to marry a child or animal? It is your opinion through your definition of marriage that homosexuals have the right to marry. It is my opinion that homosexuals have no right to marriage because their union does not fit my definition of marriage.
    As for definition, again, you define it FOR YOU. No one is stopping you. But you are stopping others from defining marriage for themselves. Again, it is you and your side who are imposing. No one is doing **** to you. Not a thing.
    And you can define marriage for you. However, California opened up a vote to legally enact opinion and make it law. My side is imposing our definition of marriage, your side is imposing your definition of marriage. That's how most social/political debates are.
    And if you single out a group of people, and say we won't let you have rights equal to ours, I really don't know what other word to use. Perhaps there is one, but the fact is you and your side are imposing your beliefs on others without just cause, no matter what you call that.
    Homosexuals have every right that any one else has. They can marry a person of the opposite sex just like everyone else. There are no laws against them, there are no rights denied to them that I don't have for myself. What those on the pro-gay marriage side want to do is create new "rights" through their definition of marriage. This whole debate is absolutely about the definition of marriage. Either it is a union between a man and woman or it's a union between two people regardless of gender or trans-gender.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    So anything anyone considers a "right" it is wrong to deny them of it? What about the right of pedophiles and those who practice bestiality? What about their "right" to marry a child or animal? It is your opinion through your definition of marriage that homosexuals have the right to marry. It is my opinion that homosexuals have no right to marriage because their union does not fit my definition of marriage.
    And you can define marriage for you. However, California opened up a vote to legally enact opinion and make it law. My side is imposing our definition of marriage, your side is imposing your definition of marriage. That's how most social/political debates are.
    Homosexuals have every right that any one else has. They can marry a person of the opposite sex just like everyone else. There are no laws against them, there are no rights denied to them that I don't have for myself. What those on the pro-gay marriage side want to do is create new "rights" through their definition of marriage. This whole debate is absolutely about the definition of marriage. Either it is a union between a man and woman or it's a union between two people regardless of gender or trans-gender.
    Oh hey it's the exact same arguments used to justify bigotry again!
    Here's my stance on rights: Until a legitimate reason to the contrary can be shown, I have the right to do anything and everything that I want. It is up to the government to show a particular reason why my marrying a dude somehow is harmful if they want to prevent me from doing it.

    Edit: And bringing up animals and children again just shows your own ignorance.
    Last edited by Deuce; 06-22-10 at 02:25 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Homosexuals have every right that any one else has. They can marry a person of the opposite sex just like everyone else
    Yeah just like those blacks had the same rights as whites regarding marriage, they could marry within their race. No harm no foul there according to you with interracial marriage bans either since whites could marry whites and blacks could marry blacks.

    Good to know where you REALLY stand.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Homosexuals have every right that any one else has. They can marry a person of the opposite sex just like everyone else. There are no laws against them, there are no rights denied to them that I don't have for myself. What those on the pro-gay marriage side want to do is create new "rights" through their definition of marriage. .
    Wrong. You have the right to legally marry a woman, and I do not. Therefore, you have a right that I - as an adult, tax paying, legal citizen of this country - am denied.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Oh hey it's the exact same arguments used to justify bigotry again!
    Here's my stance on rights: Until a legitimate reason to the contrary can be shown, I have the right to do anything and everything that I want. It is up to the government to show a particular reason why my marrying a dude somehow is harmful if they want to prevent me from doing it.

    Edit: And bringing up animals and children again just shows your own ignorance.
    And that's your stance. Because I am a practicing Christian it is completely logical for me to not support gay marriage due to my belief that homosexuality is a sin. You have simply called me ignorant without discussing the points and illustrations I have made.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Wrong. You have the right to legally marry a woman, and I do not. Therefore, you have a right that I - as an adult, tax paying, legal citizen of this country - am denied.
    And you have the right to legally marry a man, and i do not. The right to wed has to do with the opposite gender of what someone is.
    Last edited by digsbe; 06-22-10 at 02:29 PM.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    So anything anyone considers a "right" it is wrong to deny them of it? What about the right of pedophiles and those who practice bestiality? What about their "right" to marry a child or animal? It is your opinion through your definition of marriage that homosexuals have the right to marry. It is my opinion that homosexuals have no right to marriage because their union does not fit my definition of marriage.
    No, you're committing a logical fallacy there. Children and animals can't consent; therefore we can show just cause. If you hinge your argument on defintion, which is something that changes with time, you have to show a just casue or reason why your definition is to be imposed on others who have a different definition.

    And you can define marriage for you. However, California opened up a vote to legally enact opinion and make it law. My side is imposing our definition of marriage, your side is imposing your definition of marriage. That's how most social/political debates are.
    California was wrong to vote on something that is up to a vote. It is an individual right. The major has no say in who I marry, who I love, or how I express that love with an non related adult human. All other diversions must stand on their own. If there is no just reason, no harm shown, there is no reason to deny it. And it is not your place to decide this for others.

    Homosexuals have every right that any one else has. They can marry a person of the opposite sex just like everyone else. There are no laws against them, there are no rights denied to them that I don't have for myself. What those on the pro-gay marriage side want to do is create new "rights" through their definition of marriage. This whole debate is absolutely about the definition of marriage. Either it is a union between a man and woman or it's a union between two people regardless of gender or trans-gender.
    That's garbage and has always been garbage. If the reverse was true and you were free to marry someone of the same sex, don't tell me you wouldn't feel put upon. And definition means nothing concerning this debate. Feel free to define your marriage however you want. But leave others to define it for themselves.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And that's your stance. Because I am a practicing Christian it is completely logical for me to not support gay marriage due to my belief that homosexuality is a sin. You have simply called me ignorant without discussing the points and illustrations I have made.

    And you have the right to legally marry a man, and i do not. The right to wed has to do with the opposite gender of what someone is.
    You still haven't demonstrated how you are harmed by two guys getting married.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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