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Thread: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overturn

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    He feels that gays should not marry as an arbitrary feeling or is there further reasoning behind that?

    If he just feels it because thats how he feels, I wouldn't say it is bigoted but highly illogical.
    His main view is that gay marriage will not be allowed to happen. He is willing to (as a politician) disobey the law if gay marriage is legalized and not recognize them through some form of civil disobedience. The man wants to impose his views and morals upon everyone. Essentially "my view is that gays can't marry, and they won't marry and you will just have to like it!" Is this bigoted?
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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    That's a bit fascist. The action itself is rather bigoted as it can be defined as "a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.". And it seems that could be applicable here.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    His main view is that gay marriage will not be allowed to happen. He is willing to (as a politician) disobey the law if gay marriage is legalized and not recognize them through some form of civil disobedience. The man wants to impose his views and morals upon everyone. Essentially "my view is that gays can't marry, and they won't marry and you will just have to like it!" Is this bigoted?
    Fundamental Difference:

    You want to deny someone something... whether they like it or not.
    They want you to allow something... whether you accept it or not.

    No Actual Harm Done To You!

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Fundamental Difference:

    You want to deny someone something... whether they like it or not.
    They want you to allow something... whether you accept it or not.

    No Actual Harm Done To You!
    No actual harm done to anyone either if gay marriage isn't allowed. No gays are harmed and no one is splitting them up, their relationship just doesn't fit the definition of marriage.
    Again, is the guy a bigot with his views? Essentially willing to disobey the law to force his views upon everyone and intolerantly proclaiming that gay marriage will never be allowed, and everyone will just have to like it.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    That is obviously the situation with the pro-GM posters in this thread. They cherry pick the facts, then ignore the rest with a violent thrust of the head into sand. Like the guy who thinks so much of the Constitution, but ridicules the Bible as "fairy tales." It may interest you to know that many people ... billions of people ... find comfort and enlightenment in the Bible. I'm not one, though I respect its meaning to others.

    I've seen nothing from the pro-GM side except, "I want it, I must have it, therefore it's mine." Sorry but life doesn't work that way. Sure there are plenty of good reasons for GM, and plenty of bad ones. I haven't seen anything that rates a redefinition of marriage.

    Here's your litmus test. Give gays every benefit of marriage, but call it a "union" and that's just not satisfactory to them. They want ME to call it a marriage, because they know that gay marriage is a sham. Better to have everyone follow along like the Emperor's New Clothes and nobody better dare state the obvious: union between two men is not a marriage.
    As a Catholic I have no problem with the Bible. What I have a problem with is people thinking they can enforce their beliefs on others. That and that many don't know the Bible as well as they pretend. But I won't debate that here. Here all that is important is that you are free in this country to keep your beliefs. You don't believe in same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. You believe in honoring your marriage the way you think it shoujld be, honor it that way. You don't want to go to a same marriage, don't go. But remeber in a free country, others may do it differently.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    His main view is that gay marriage will not be allowed to happen. He is willing to (as a politician) disobey the law if gay marriage is legalized and not recognize them through some form of civil disobedience. The man wants to impose his views and morals upon everyone. Essentially "my view is that gays can't marry, and they won't marry and you will just have to like it!" Is this bigoted?
    Are you not imposing your beliefs on someone else, denying them rights for no other reason than you don't like them. What name would give that if it was the standard for any other lawful group of people of your choice?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Are you not imposing your beliefs on someone else, denying them rights for no other reason than you don't like them. What name would give that if it was the standard for any other lawful group of people of your choice?
    Yes, yes I am. I am standing up for my beliefs and "imposing" them just as those in the pro gay marriage crows are standing up for their beliefs and "imposing" theirs. My main point is to expose the hypocrisy from the pro gay marriage crowed with their rhetoric and actions. My question was somewhat of a bait tactic, because the mayor of San Francisco has done everything I said the hypothetic anti-gay marriage politician did. the mayor of San Francisco preformed gay marriages on Valentines Day against the law of the land, those same sex marriages were annulled in court because they weren't legal. The mayer made this comment "As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation. It's inevitable. This door's wide open now. It's going to happen, whether you like it or not." He is imposing his views upon others through civil disobedience and his comments.

    The gay marriage debate is not about "you bigoted anti LBGT people want to deny them the right to marry." The gay marriage debate is about defining marriage. Both groups want to impose their definition of marriage upon everyone else, and in this situation voting is the best solution to enact some legal answer. Many want to spin rhetoric and cast the anti-gay marriage crowed as being "bigoted" or saying "how dare you, gay marriage affects you in no way." In my previous post I showed other views that many hold that affect them in no way, yet no one tells them it's wrong for them to hold them or vote for those beliefs. Outside of the spin and the bigotry, the issue is between two clashing definitions of marriage. One definition is "marriage is the union between one man and one woman." The other version is "marriage is a union between two people regardless of gender or trans-gender." Now, California voted to define marriage, and marriage was legally defined as a union between one man and one woman. This isn't about denying gays "rights," it's abut defining marriage. If marriage is between a man and a woman, then gays have no "right" to legally prop their relationship up as something equal to marriage. No one is outlawing homosexuality, and no one is forcing gay couples to separate. No harm is done to them, the only thing that affects them, is that their union is not marriage and will not be recognized as such. It is a grave and ironic hypocrisy for the pro-gay marriage crowed to impose their definition of marriage upon everyone in a state when they claim that the other side of the issue is oppressive and imposing of their beliefs. They are blind to their hypocrisy because they rationalize it as "the other side is the ones who want to deny rights, therefore they are the imposing ones. My view is not imposing because I want to extend rights by making gay unions equal to heterosexual marriage." They refuse to see that they are imposing their definition of marriage, and that the issue revolves around how marriage is defined. It is not bigoted nor is it denying someone their rights to define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. It would be bigoted for me to force my belief upon countries like Canada where it is the law of the land and the majority approve of it.
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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    No, you are not. Standing up for one's rights is not the same as denying rights to others. You keep your rights. If same sex couples marry, nothing happens to your rights at all. Nothing. Therefore, there is no imposing on you at all. None. However, you deny them rights, and that is an imposition.

    As for definition, again, you define it FOR YOU. No one is stopping you. But you are stopping others from defining marriage for themselves. Again, it is you and your side who are imposing. No one is doing **** to you. Not a thing.

    And if you single out a group of people, and say we won't let you have rights equal to ours, I really don't know what other word to use. Perhaps there is one, but the fact is you and your side are imposing your beliefs on others without just cause, no matter what you call that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    As usual, you are wrong. It is the anti-GM crowd whose entire argument is nothing but, "I don't like it". Nothing else. The only pertinent evidence that has been presented, has been presented by the pro-GM side. You have failed to prove anything.
    I don't have to "prove" anything. I'm not the one trying to redefine marriage. I'm not the one trying to normalize homosexual behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    If that's the only argument you have seen from the pro-GM side, then you are obviously not understanding a thing that has been written in this thread. Just sayin'.
    That comment doesn't deserve a response. Just sayin'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's kinda funny how some people keep using the word "prove" in some form as if they had presented factual information which qualitatively proves that GM is bad or will lead to something worse. Mostly it's just a hodgepodge of ignorance, intolerance, bigotry, and theocracy.
    See Captain C's comment above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As a Catholic I have no problem with the Bible. What I have a problem with is people thinking they can enforce their beliefs on others. That and that many don't know the Bible as well as they pretend. But I won't debate that here. Here all that is important is that you are free in this country to keep your beliefs. You don't believe in same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. You believe in honoring your marriage the way you think it shoujld be, honor it that way. You don't want to go to a same marriage, don't go. But remeber in a free country, others may do it differently.
    My beliefs say that my kids should be raised in a culture free of exposure to sexual excesses and perversions. Just like they should be free from fear of rape, robbery or murder. Like I said above, the pro-GM argument remains, "we want it, we must have it, therefore it's ours." There is no compelling argument, since gays already have nearly all rights of married couples. The real difference is in name only, which puts a lie to the whole "because we love each other" argument.

    You've given no reasons whatsoever why millions of years of evolution, and thousands of years of culture, should be turned on its head for the sake of a few misfits.
    Last edited by StevenA59; 06-22-10 at 01:48 PM.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    That comment doesn't deserve a response. Just sayin'
    Then why did you take the time to respond? Just sayin'.

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