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Thread: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overturn

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I'll ask an even better one. What is the real life affect to society? To that state? What exactly will be negative about allowing gays to marry? Provide proof.
    I would be interested in hearing an answer.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Again, it affects my society and the state that I live in. As a voting resident of my state, it affects me if the government I elect choses to extend marital rights and a marital status to a homosexual union. It would essentially be the government doing the opposite of what I believe, and as a voter I have the right to make my voice and opinion heard. How does it affect you if homosexual unions aren't recognized as marriages?
    I don't understand that at all/ YOu suffer no objective harm. You see when blacks or women or those between ages 18 and 21 were given say the right to vote, those who already could vote could claim that their voting power was DILUTED or DIMINISHED by extending the franchise to those who previously could not vote. That isn't EVEN THE CASE here. You suffer no DILUTION IN YOUR RIGHTS as a married couple by allowing Dave and Bob to call themselves a married couple. So what you are telling me is that you FEEL That your marriage to Mrs Digsbe is somehow CHEAPENED because Guido and Julious can call themselves Husband and Husband or whatever.

    NOw that is not an objectively sound reason to stop them, Now I realize you might claim that this is not a case of active interference or denial but merely a REFUSAL of the government to RECOGNIZE Anna and Mary as a married couple but that is a specious argument. There is no reason to deny equal treatment of gays because you cannot even claim a diluation in your benefits as a married couple.

    Sorry I couldn't give a flying F if it upsets some religions.



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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't understand that at all/ YOu suffer no objective harm. You see when blacks or women or those between ages 18 and 21 were given say the right to vote, those who already could vote could claim that their voting power was DILUTED or DIMINISHED by extending the franchise to those who previously could not vote. That isn't EVEN THE CASE here. You suffer no DILUTION IN YOUR RIGHTS as a married couple by allowing Dave and Bob to call themselves a married couple. So what you are telling me is that you FEEL That your marriage to Mrs Digsbe is somehow CHEAPENED because Guido and Julious can call themselves Husband and Husband or whatever.

    NOw that is not an objectively sound reason to stop them, Now I realize you might claim that this is not a case of active interference or denial but merely a REFUSAL of the government to RECOGNIZE Anna and Mary as a married couple but that is a specious argument. There is no reason to deny equal treatment of gays because you cannot even claim a diluation in your benefits as a married couple.

    Sorry I couldn't give a flying F if it upsets some religions.
    And we're free to have differnet religious beliefs. There are those who hold Christian beliefs who would marry homosexuals. To deny them is to say their version is better, preferenced.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And we're free to have differnet religious beliefs. There are those who hold Christian beliefs who would marry homosexuals. To deny them is to say their version is better, preferenced.
    Which is exactly what these people believe. It makes talking to them pretty difficult. And then they go and have the audacity to play the victim card every time same-sex marriage comes up.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Again, it affects my society and the state that I live in. As a voting resident of my state, it affects me if the government I elect choses to extend marital rights and a marital status to a homosexual union. It would essentially be the government doing the opposite of what I believe, and as a voter I have the right to make my voice and opinion heard. How does it affect you if homosexual unions aren't recognized as marriages?
    It affects me because there are people in my free society, the USA, that aren't being treated as equals. They are being denied the same rights as me because some people consider their relationship a sin or icky eventhough, such relationships have been deemed legal by the SCOTUS and normal, healthy relationships by every major medical institution in this country. The side that is for continuing to keep the people who aren't allowed to marry who they are attracted from making such commitments can't provide any solid proof for their reasons to keep their institution just for a certain group of people. Instead, their arguments hold with the "it's tradition" or "I consider it a sin/icky/unnatural, and my vote/opinion should be the only thing that matters, since I'm in the majority".

    It also affects me in a more indirect way, because since my state is one that doesn't allow or recognize same-sex marriage, my state is also missing out on the revenues that could come from gay weddings taking place in this state. Since it has been shown that many gay men and women, especially ones that want to get married, are generally in the middle to upper class income levels, then they will be very likely to spend more on a commitment ceremony that will bring legal benefits. This could lead to more weddings and possibly more jobs in the wedding/party industries in those states that have gay marriage.Gay marriage can serve as boost to economy Thomas Kostigen's Ethics Monitor - MarketWatch
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Again, it affects my society and the state that I live in. As a voting resident of my state, it affects me if the government I elect choses to extend marital rights and a marital status to a homosexual union. It would essentially be the government doing the opposite of what I believe, and as a voter I have the right to make my voice and opinion heard. How does it affect you if homosexual unions aren't recognized as marriages?
    This is literally the weakest attempt to justify the denial of basic rights I have ever heard of in my entire life. Congratulations. Really, your argument boils down to "because I don't want it."

    You know what I don't want? You. In my country. Can we vote on that too?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There are those who hold Christian beliefs who would marry homosexuals.
    This reminds me of an ad campaign some Church ran where it was basically saying it would accept people you average church wouldn't, like gay couples.

    And that ad was from quite a while ago.
    Reality tends to have a liberal bias.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Here's the thing, folks. The GM debate always boils down to morality vs. logic. This far, I have never seen a logical debate presented by someone who is anti-GM, that didn't eventually come down to morality, or "I don't want it" with no other explanation. Now, I am not mocking morality, but I do not believe that policy should be based on it, when logic completely defies what it dictates. The American people have the right to vote anyway they choose, whether it be on logic, morality, or because they "feel like it"... even if they are wrong, based on evidence, logic, or whatever. I have involved myself in the GM debate for many years and I do not hold illusions that I will change anti's minds, but I do hope I can at least educate them on how their positions are not logical and what they are actually based on. They can believe what they want; I just want them to see WHY.
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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's not an explination. You're talking in circles, it does because it does because it does. I want to know HOW it effects you? What is your real life tangiable effect to you and your marriage?

    ONce you answer me, I'll gladly answer you.
    He already said there is a basis in religion. Do you need to be quoted chapter and verse? That's not necessary since the Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin like many other sins. IMO gay marriage is a redefinition of marriage that harms the institution. And don't keep asking why. It's been explained repeatedly.

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    Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't understand that at all/ YOu suffer no objective harm. You see when blacks or women or those between ages 18 and 21 were given say the right to vote, those who already could vote could claim that their voting power was DILUTED or DIMINISHED by extending the franchise to those who previously could not vote. That isn't EVEN THE CASE here. You suffer no DILUTION IN YOUR RIGHTS as a married couple by allowing Dave and Bob to call themselves a married couple. So what you are telling me is that you FEEL That your marriage to Mrs Digsbe is somehow CHEAPENED because Guido and Julious can call themselves Husband and Husband or whatever.

    NOw that is not an objectively sound reason to stop them, Now I realize you might claim that this is not a case of active interference or denial but merely a REFUSAL of the government to RECOGNIZE Anna and Mary as a married couple but that is a specious argument. There is no reason to deny equal treatment of gays because you cannot even claim a diluation in your benefits as a married couple.

    Sorry I couldn't give a flying F if it upsets some religions.
    Sexual self-identification has nothing to do with race. Gays already have the right to vote.

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