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Thread: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I completely agree with Biden's statement on this.

    We'll I hate to inform you but both you and Biden are factually incorrect.

    The "fund" will be paid into over a course of 3 years.
    There is no immediate funding of 20 billion for all the needs of "the people."
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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We'll I hate to inform you but both you and Biden are factually incorrect.

    The "fund" will be paid into over a course of 3 years.
    There is no immediate funding of 20 billion for all the needs of "the people."
    I would be surprised if there is 20 billion of need right now, but its possible I guess.

    However, as I understand it, the 20 billion is the low amount, if more is needed, than BP is going to have to pay more. So, my guess is that if they lowballed it, they will pay more than 20 billion over those three years or however long it ends up being.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-18-10 at 06:18 PM.

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I would be surprised if there is 20 billion of need right now, but its possible I guess.

    However, as I understand it, the 20 billion is the low amount, if more is needed, than BP is going to have to pay more. So, my guess is that if they lowballed it, they will pay more than 20 billion over those three years or however long it ends up being.
    Well to address this in the light of what is actually happening.

    BP has already been paying claims, without the need of this fund.
    BP has already been paying the clean up costs, without the need of this fund.

    To add, BP controls the Prudhoe Bay oil fields in Alaska.
    Not to mention their other assets in the U.S. that would be at stake.

    With so much to lose on their end, do you honestly think they won't pay the share of costs they are responsible for?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well to address this in the light of what is actually happening.

    BP has already been paying claims, without the need of this fund.
    BP has already been paying the clean up costs, without the need of this fund.

    To add, BP controls the Prudhoe Bay oil fields in Alaska.
    Not to mention their other assets in the U.S. that would be at stake.

    With so much to lose on their end, do you honestly think they won't pay the share of costs they are responsible for?
    I don't know if they would or not honestly. Exxon is still fighting various things in court from the Valdez and I see no reason to believe BP would act any differently. Without a fund, my guess is that the alternative would be court battles or a class action lawsuit. I think this is probably a good move as it simplifies things and negates some of the need for lawyer for people who might not be able to afford them.

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't know if they would or not honestly. Exxon is still fighting various things in court from the Valdez and I see no reason to believe BP would act any differently. Without a fund, my guess is that the alternative would be court battles or a class action lawsuit. I think this is probably a good move as it simplifies things and negates some of the need for lawyer for people who might not be able to afford them.
    There is a good reason many lawyers get involved, it's to weed out the fraudulent claims.
    Again in context, there are perfectly legitimate reasons they fight this stuff in court.

    Plaintiff's usually over blow their losses while the company underscores the losses, court serves a valuable purpose to come to a middle ground.
    When you involve politically motivated individuals, there only care is to make voters happy, whether or not they are right.

    Again BP is already paying claims to individuals, they're doing it right now, before any fund was set up.
    It's in their best interest to do so.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We'll I hate to inform you but both you and Biden are factually incorrect.

    The "fund" will be paid into over a course of 3 years.
    There is no immediate funding of 20 billion for all the needs of "the people."
    "Immediate?" That's all you got?

    One word. A slight overstatement. That's it?

    Pretty weak, man...

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There is a good reason many lawyers get involved, it's to weed out the fraudulent claims.
    Again in context, there are perfectly legitimate reasons they fight this stuff in court.
    Maybe, I am skeptical since court costs can exceed possible payable losses resulting in a new loss for legitimate claims. If going to court was free or paid for by BP, I might more readibly agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Plaintiff's usually over blow their losses while the company underscores the losses, court serves a valuable purpose to come to a middle ground.
    When you involve politically motivated individuals, there only care is to make voters happy, whether or not they are right.

    Again BP is already paying claims to individuals, they're doing it right now, before any fund was set up.
    It's in their best interest to do so.
    I see your point there, but I still think its different ways of achieving the same thing. In this case, I think the fund is probably more efficient and better for people who do not have enough money to afford a lawyer while their livelihood is suffering.

    I guess one thing I keep seeing is people saying that whoever runs this thing is a political appointee. I am curious if there is even a mechanism to appoint someone without influence from either the government or BP? The way I see it, is if either the government or BP has influence on selecting the person to run this, than they will be vulnerable to claims of influence. Is it even possible to achieve this without being vulnerable to those claims?
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-18-10 at 06:44 PM.

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    "Immediate?" That's all you got?

    One word. A slight overstatement. That's it?

    Pretty weak, man...
    I'm approaching this from a reasonable, rational standpoint.

    Let's all really think hard about this and decide which scenario you would choose.

    BP honor's their liability to pay for remediation and continues to operate in the U.S. earning over 1 trillion in revenue or BP does not pay 60 billion (an extremely liberal estimate of the remediation costs) and loses over 1 trillion in revenue.

    Over 1 trillion in revenue, over several years vs. 60 billion in the course of 3-10 years.
    Which makes the most sense?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Maybe, I am skeptical since court costs can exceed possible payable losses resulting in a new loss for legitimate claims. If going to court was free or paid for by BP, I might more readibly agree.
    As we speak though, many of those claims are already being settled out of court, so for the moment the only loss to individuals is time.
    Which of course can be big if it goes on to long.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I see your point there, but I still think its different ways of achieving the same thing. In this case, I think the fund is probably more efficient and better for people who do not have enough money to afford a lawyer while their livelihood is suffering.

    I guess one thing I keep seeing is people saying that whoever runs this thing is a political appointee. I am curious if there is even a mechanism to appoint someone without influence from either the government or BP? The way I see it, is if either the government or BP has influence on selecting the person to run this, than they will be vulnerable to claims of influence. Is it even possible to achieve this without being vulnerable to those claims?
    The controller is currently the pay czar, hardly an independent appointee.

    A better way would be to either try and recruit a BP competitor or appoint a dual panel of the Pay Czar and a BP employee, so that both sides are equally represented.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Joe Barton retracts apology to BP

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    BP honor's their liability to pay for remediation and continues to operate in the U.S. earning over 1 trillion in revenue or BP does not pay 60 billion (an extremely liberal estimate of the remediation costs) and loses over 1 trillion in revenue.

    Over 1 trillion in revenue, over several years vs. 60 billion in the course of 3-10 years.
    Which makes the most sense?
    I don't think it is as simple as you are making it out to be. As soon as there is a new issue of the day, a lot of people will turn their attention from BP (face it, we have a short attention span) and BP will begin finding ways to wiggle out of its obligations. Another possibility is that after the November elections, more republicans are in congress to go to bat for BP. I think that without a formal arrangement now and some stuff set in stone, there is not a high chance of BP continuing to behave when their brand is in less danger of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    As we speak though, many of those claims are already being settled out of court, so for the moment the only loss to individuals is time.
    Which of course can be big if it goes on to long.
    Payments being settled out of court could easily mean that people are accepting less than their due for the sake of expedience or lawyer costs. Resolution might be fair or it might not be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The controller is currently the pay czar, hardly an independent appointee.

    A better way would be to either try and recruit a BP competitor or appoint a dual panel of the Pay Czar and a BP employee, so that both sides are equally represented.
    I agree that a mixed committee would be good. I disagree with the idea of a competitor since they might use the post to seek market advantage.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-18-10 at 06:56 PM.

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