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Thread: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    There is no proof it helped. It did 2 things. Tripled the debt and expanded government. Obama did not learn from the failed policies of the great depression
    Going by that level of evidence there is no proof that it did not prevent unemployment from hitting 50% preventing the economic collapse of the US
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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    No I would say it is the same recession Obama and his spending is not helping or changing anything
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    There is no proof it helped. It did 2 things. Tripled the debt and expanded government. Obama did not learn from the failed policies of the great depression
    There is no proof to your claim, and yet you want proof from some one else?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Would you rather have had him say

    The economy is in the toilet, and will remain so because to many stupid morons gave out loans to other stupid morons when both groups knew they would and could not be paid back unless housing prices continued to appreciate at unrealistic levels for years to come. That is is going to require America to take a drastic decline in spending and in wage expectations, not to mention pensions will be lost or reduced drastically
    Go back and discover who precisely who ordered Fanny and Freddie to 'lend baby lend'.

    Then come back to present day and find out the value of Fanny & Freddie on the Stock exchange, then after that, why not go and see how much cash Obama has dripped into these two trash cans?

    Then vote accordingly come November.

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    There is no proof it helped. It did 2 things. Tripled the debt and expanded government. Obama did not learn from the failed policies of the great depression
    Not a single piece eh?

    Okay, I fully realize you are going to, as usual, run away from hard questions, but here are some for others to laugh at you on when you flee:
    (if you stopped doing that, I'd stop mocking you)

    According to you, sending hundreds of billions of dollars as rebates into the economy did nothing to stimulate spending: Do you agree?
    According to you, CARS did not increase sales: Do you agree?
    According to you, Bonus Depreciation, which was IDENTICAL to Bush's program did absolutely nothing for corporate purchases: Do you agree?
    According to you, not letting GM and Chrysler go under, and thereby preventing millions from joining welfare rolls did not help the economy: Do you agree?

    That's just for starters. How about you start answering before I really start getting mean?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    There is no doubt in my mind, both the bush stimulus and obama stimulus increased disposable income in the economy. Can anyone tell me what two things added together make disposable income? Can anyone tell me what causes an economy to go into recession? Why does GDP go backwards?

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    There is no doubt in my mind, both the bush stimulus and obama stimulus increased disposable income in the economy. Can anyone tell me what two things added together make disposable income? Can anyone tell me what causes an economy to go into recession? Why does GDP go backwards?
    And you should now get your shield to protect you from the completely irrelevant insults that are going to come your way.

    Ask questions that require economic intelligent, get insults in return. It's how DP works.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Go back and discover who precisely who ordered Fanny and Freddie to 'lend baby lend'.

    Then come back to present day and find out the value of Fanny & Freddie on the Stock exchange, then after that, why not go and see how much cash Obama has dripped into these two trash cans?

    Then vote accordingly come November.
    1. Fannie/Freddie securitize loans, they do not lend money.

    Also, its extremely hard when you frame debate like this. The unpleasent fact is that fannie and freddie have been around a long time, and they purchased a large amount of morgages during a housing bubble. Of course if we could have done things different 4 or 5 years ago it would have been great, but that did not happen. We had a company that essentially turns the gears of the morgage economy that had and still has a large amount of negative equity. It would have been very hard to come up with a viable alternative at the time (and remember I am defending the bill President Bush signed).

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    The easiest thing to do is contrast JFK (R-MA) and Reagan (R-CA) to ObamaMarx (S-IL).
    Obama is going in the opposite manner of Reagan and JFK.

    Why do we not hear the New Statistic of how many jobs it saved ... LOL.

    Instead of cutting taxes and regulations, Obi adds more burdens... in the name of "fairness"...LOL.
    His idiotic comments in the following vid underscores his general and reckless philosophy of "spread the wealth around"... to his targets.
    TAX AND SPEND.


    That money would have been better spent left in the private sector, and with reduced taxation.

    Government creates the problem, forcing banks to make bad loans under the full weight and force of the law, and then blames the free market, and then seeks more control over a problem they themselves created.

    Fred and Fan also were exempt from reporting as normal companies do, and there were 200-250 people whose only job was to look at these two companies... none of them called out F&F. Wonder why? Warren Buffett stated sarcastically they only had to look at a couple companies every day and failed... and he looks at hundreds.

    When R's tried to warn about F&F... the D's went ballistic. F&F was a political slush fund for Dems... a vote buying machine without oversight.


    http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset+Tree/Asset+Viewers/Audio+Video+Asset+Viewer.htm?guid={A138FFB8-5B6A-4C6A-A8CC-70C6E4FF39DA}&type=Audio



    JFK (R-MA) Address at the Economic Club of New York, December 14, 1962
    We need not accept an unemployment rate Of 5 percent or more, such as we have had for 60 out of the last 61 months. There is no need for us to be satisfied with a rate of growth that keeps good men out of work and good capacity out of use.

    There are a number of ways by which the Federal Government can meet its responsibilities to aid economic growth...

    ...--to cut the fetters which hold back private spending. In the past...It could also be done by increasing Federal expenditures more rapidly than necessary, but such a course would soon demoralize both the Government and our economy...

    The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system...

    I am not talking about a "quickie" or a temporary tax cut, which would be more appropriate if a recession were imminent. Nor am I talking about giving the economy a mere shot in the arm, to ease some temporary complaint. I am talking about the accumulated evidence of the last 5 years that our present tax system, developed as it was, in good part, during World War II to restrain growth, exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking.

    In short, to increase demand and lift the economy, the Federal Government's most useful role is not to rush into a program of excessive increases in public expenditures, but to expand the incentives and opportunities for private expenditures.

    Corporate tax rates must also be cut to increase incentives and the availability of investment capital.

    In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country's own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus.

    I repeat: our practical choice is not between a tax-cut deficit and a budgetary surplus. It is between two kinds of deficits: a chronic deficit of inertia, as the unwanted result of inadequate revenues and a restricted economy; or a temporary deficit of transition, resulting from a tax cut designed to boost the economy, increase tax revenues, and achieve--and I believe this can be done--a budget surplus. The first type of deficit is a sign of waste and weakness; the second reflects an investment in the future.

    This Nation can afford to reduce taxes, we can afford a temporary deficit, but we cannot afford to do nothing. For on the strength of our free economy rests the hope of all free nations. We shall not fail that hope, for free men and free nations must prosper and they must prevail.
    Thank you.



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    Last edited by zimmer; 06-18-10 at 04:43 AM.
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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    The stimulus did provide tax credits, transfer payments, and incentives that all in effect rose disposable income. Tax cuts would have the same effect, only on a broader area. Why would a tax cut be less effective than for example, unemployment payments at providing stimilus to the economy? I'll give you a hint, it has to do with utility.

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    Re: New jobless claims up sharply as layoffs persist

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Going by that level of evidence there is no proof that it did not prevent unemployment from hitting 50% preventing the economic collapse of the US
    There is no proof it did anything.

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