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Thread: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

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    Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

    Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, proposed yesterday that people seeking unemployment benefits or welfare undergo drug tests before they can receive benefits.
    Normally I disagree with most things this guy does but I applaud this move.

    I like most forms of welfare and I believe they serve a necessary function for our society (even though they are going to need to be scaled back because of budgetary considerations, unfortunately), but there is no purpose in spending money where it does not produce any positive benefits for the individual getting the money or for society.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

    Normally I disagree with most things this guy does but I applaud this move.

    I like most forms of welfare and I believe they serve a necessary function for our society (even though they are going to need to be scaled back because of budgetary considerations, unfortunately), but there is no purpose in spending money where it does not produce any positive benefits for the individual getting the money or for society.
    I've know qualms with this. I did have to check to see what he proposes if they're found to test positive. And I approve of that, too.

    I can disagree with Hatch a LOT. But he's (normally) fairly reasonable even when I oppose him.

    Here I generally support what he's doing.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    I'm sympathetic to the idea behind these bills, but I don't really see how it will have the intended effect. If someone is a drug user who is so broke that they're on welfare, one of two things will happen:

    -They quit drugs and continue to get welfare payments, or
    -They keep using drugs and no longer get welfare payments

    Presumably people who are drug addicts and welfare recipients have already been in situations where they had fairly substantial incentives to quit using drugs. They failed in all those situations, so I don't know why this one would be any different. I would expect that the vast majority of drug users on welfare would fall into the latter group. Society might save a few bucks, but at the expense of putting a lot of people into desperate situations.
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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    And what if they test dirty?
    Without assistance, they won't be able to take care of their kids.
    Are you going to take their kids away?
    Where would you put them all?

    If there's one thing our nation won't stand for, it's seeing American children going hungry, homeless, or deprived of necessities.
    And we shouldn't stand for it.
    This isn't Calcutta. We don't want to have to kick dirty, diseased beggar children out of our way when we walk down the street. The idea is obscene. We live in the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world.

    Nevertheless, we don't have the apparatus in place to remove the children of the poor en masse, even if this were a desirable solution (which i don't believe it is). We don't have anywhere to put them or any way to take care of them.

    Besides, drug testing only ever really catches pot-smokers.
    Most other drugs are out of one's system within hours or days.
    Pot's the only one that stays with you for weeks, even over a month in some cases.
    It seems counterproductive to penalize recreational pot-smokers, while meth-heads, junkies, and coke fiends continue to receive federal or state aid.


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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    And what if they test dirty?
    Without assistance, they won't be able to take care of their kids.
    Are you going to take their kids away?
    Where would you put them all?

    If there's one thing our nation won't stand for, it's seeing American children going hungry, homeless, or deprived of necessities.
    And we shouldn't stand for it.
    This isn't Calcutta. We don't want to have to kick dirty, diseased beggar children out of our way when we walk down the street. The idea is obscene. We live in the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world.

    Nevertheless, we don't have the apparatus in place to remove the children of the poor en masse, even if this were a desirable solution (which i don't believe it is). We don't have anywhere to put them or any way to take care of them.

    Besides, drug testing only ever really catches pot-smokers.
    Most other drugs are out of one's system within hours or days.
    Pot's the only one that stays with you for weeks, even over a month in some cases.
    It seems counterproductive to penalize recreational pot-smokers, while meth-heads, junkies, and coke fiends continue to receive federal or state aid.

    You're right about the pot-smoking. Something I hadn't considered.

    That said, it does factor in that they would get treatment if they test positive.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    You're right about the pot-smoking. Something I hadn't considered.

    That said, it does factor in that they would get treatment if they test positive.
    Treatment doesn't work unless you want to quit.
    Mandatory treatment's a waste of money.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Welfare is administered on the state level and for those states who have carved out legalities for weed, my guess is that they will take that into account while administering the drug tests.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    I read the article several times but I couldnt find Hatch's plan to pay for said testing. Not that I disagree with the plan but you have to pay the piper you know.
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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    I'm in favor of this except for a few reasons:
    1. Urine tests can be easy to beat.
    2. Saliva tests sometimes only require you to be sober for a few days (or clean the hell out of your mouth).
    3. Blood tests and hair tests can give positive results even after someone has been sober for many months, so even if someone was sober for a long time they could still test positive.
    4. Even if someone stays sober long enough to pass a test, they can just go back to using again after they pass the test.

    But overall I support this move, though I wouldn't know the right way to implement it.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    I'm in favor of this except for a few reasons:
    1. Urine tests can be easy to beat.
    2. Saliva tests sometimes only require you to be sober for a few days (or clean the hell out of your mouth).
    3. Blood tests and hair tests can give positive results even after someone has been sober for many months, so even if someone was sober for a long time they could still test positive.
    4. Even if someone stays sober long enough to pass a test, they can just go back to using again after they pass the test.

    But overall I support this move, though I wouldn't know the right way to implement it.
    Hair follicle tests give accurate results for approximately three months; blood tests, less.
    I would think hair follicle testing would be prohibitively expensive.

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