Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 119

Thread: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

  1. #81
    Professor
    Marilyn Monroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    03-06-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,137

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    For what it's worth, I would say this is a highly unlikely scenario.
    This is what I have read, but I don't have a source. Why do you believe this to be highly unlikely. I also read they have a high death rate at a young age. If we're talking the ghetto I believe it's possible. They may use for recreation, but it's not a hardcore addiction. Many of the dealers have kids with women who are on welfare, and the women aren't hardcore users.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  2. #82
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    10-26-10 @ 06:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,978

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    This is what I have read, but I don't have a source. Why do you believe this to be highly unlikely. I also read they have a high death rate at a young age. If we're talking the ghetto I believe it's possible. They may use for recreation, but it's not a hardcore addiction. Many of the dealers have kids with women who are on welfare, and the women aren't hardcore users.
    Well, you said, "MO is a lot of welfare recipients sell drugs, but don't use."
    And I said I found that scenario unlikely.
    I've been around a lot of poor people- have been on assistance myself, have lived in low income housing projects.
    I've also been around a lot of drug users and dealers and have been a habitual user myself in the past (although not a dealer, not in any sort of systematic way).

    I've never known anybody who was deep enough into the scene to be considered a "dealer" who did not use drugs recreationally, at the very least.
    I've seen movies where dealers don't use drugs.
    Perhaps at the very top of the drug-dealing chain, the millionaires who control the drug trade don't use drugs. They probably never even really have to see or be around drugs, if they don't want to. They can just make business deals over the phone.

    But on a street level- the kind of dealers you'd find living in poverty- it's been my experience that they're all fiends and junkies, dealing to support their own habits. Sometimes what they deal is not the same as what they do- for instance, one well-known coke dealer in my city, back in the '90s, was a heroin addict. He didn't use coke, except for the occasional speedball (heroin and coke mixed together).

    Now, I've known couriers who weren't drug users.
    All they'd do was transport drugs to different states.
    If they had been obvious drug users, they wouldn't have been entrusted with this lucrative job.

    It is my opinion, however, that most street-level dealers, who actually personally handle drugs and personally deal with buyers, are in fact also drug users.
    Are most of them addicts?
    It depends on the drug, but- especially in the case of stimulant drugs like cocaine and meth- probably not.
    Once a dealer becomes an addict, he's on a downward trajectory, and probably won't be in business too much longer.
    Last edited by 1069; 06-18-10 at 08:35 PM.

  3. #83
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Against it for the reasons already mentioned. Most people who are hardcore drug addicts and are on welfare are poor in the first place. Remove the assistance and they fall deeper. I know some people are so selfish that they don't care if other people fall through the gutter, but I promise you'll start to care when you see an influx of homeless people roaming the streets and turning up dead in plain site. Because you live in America, you've never seen what that looks like. Take a little trip to Asia and you'll see what it looks like when the system completely abandons people. It's rather disturbing.

    The pure punishment approach doesn't work, and I wish people would get past the notion already.
    So I have to support people who have made the decision to be worthless drug users for the sake of not allowing them to be homeless?
    I don't understand. Why can't we let people take responsibility for their own actions. If their actions allow them to fall into homelessness, so ****ing be it.

    Explain to me again why a welfare recipient gets to sit on their ass doing drugs while I have to work hard to provide this for them?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  4. #84
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    I realize people don't like their tax dollars aiding drug users, but if it's recreational and occasional it's not our business.
    Yes, it is our business.
    Drugs are.... expensive.
    Expensive things are not things welfare recipients can/should be capable of affording.

    If you can afford expensive luxuries like recreational drugs, you can afford to support yourself.

    The rest of us hard working Americans should not be working hard to support a bunch of loafing ass welfare recipients.

    Next these welfare junkies will complain they can't get a job to get off welfare because they can't pass the drug testing to get said job.,
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  5. #85
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    This is what I have read, but I don't have a source. Why do you believe this to be highly unlikely. I also read they have a high death rate at a young age. If we're talking the ghetto I believe it's possible. They may use for recreation, but it's not a hardcore addiction. Many of the dealers have kids with women who are on welfare, and the women aren't hardcore users.
    They are welfare recipients. Why should they be "recreating" anyways. Especially "recreating" with illegal and expensive drugs.

    Take your recreation and go get a 2nd or 3rd job.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #86
    Professor
    Marilyn Monroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    03-06-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,137

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    They are welfare recipients. Why should they be "recreating" anyways. Especially "recreating" with illegal and expensive drugs.

    Take your recreation and go get a 2nd or 3rd job.
    Welfare isn't enough to pay all the bills. If you have kids and want them to have heat and shelter, you'll work a job that pays cash to supplement the welfare you receive.

    Here's a snippet from an article I found. It's from the 1990's;

    How these particular mothers made ends meet; They got 57 percent of their income from food stamps and AFDC. Roughly half the rest came from work of various kinds. The remainder came from absent fathers, boyfriends, relatives, and student loans. The work these mothers did was extraordinarily diverse. Three held regular jobs under another name, earning an average of $5 an hour. Twelve worked part time at off-the-books jobs such as bartending, catering, babysitting, and sewing that paid an average of $3 an hour.

    The only well-paid work open to these women was prostitution, which paid something like $40 an hour. Four of Edin's mothers supplemented their welfare checks this way. Four others sold drugs, but three of the four sold only marijuana and earned only $3 to $5 an hour. They could presumably have earned more if they had sold crack on the street, but they sold only to acquaintances, which was much less risky. The fourth drug seller sold crack as well as marijuana and earned something like $10 an hour, but she was murdered soon after Edin interviewed her, apparently because she had not repaid her supplier.
    To read the whole article:

    The Real Welfare Problem | The American Prospect
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  7. #87
    Guru
    Crunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Seen
    12-21-10 @ 05:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,063

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    2) Random drug testing would be FAR more expensive than the measly $400 bucks welfare recipients get now.
    That ain't entirely true.

    Most employers find that a drug-testing program will eliminate people with problem, and not good applicants. Drug tests for small to medium employers generally cost in the $50-$70.00 range, including collection of the sample, laboratory analysis, services of a Medial Review Officer, and communications of the results in the manner most convenient to the employer.
    Intro to Employment Drug Testing for Employers and Human Resources Professionals
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

  8. #88
    Professor
    Groucho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Pocono Mountains, PA
    Last Seen
    05-24-11 @ 03:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    1,363

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Why limit it to welfare recipients? Why not everyone who gets government money?

    Why not corporate CEOs who get bailouts? Students who get student loans and grants? People who actually work for the government, from those in the military on down to the clerk at the DMV?

    And how about people who get money from the government indirectly, such as through government services? Why not test everyone who wants to borrow a library book? Can't get your mail until you piss in a cup. If you use the highway, roadside test could become a common thing.

    Or maybe this is just another way for politicians to attack the most helpless among us without any real concern for consistency or logic? After all, these people never vote anyway.

  9. #89
    Professor
    Marilyn Monroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    03-06-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,137

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    I had a drug test recently and it cost over $1,400. To test for everything it's quite expensive.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  10. #90
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,263

    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I agree, but what I am pushing for is that if any private company receives any money/grant/tax break from the government that they should be forced to drug test their employees.. that should cover everyone in the US. That is a way to deal with the problem on a national scale instead of putting a band-aid on a small part of the problem.
    Given this statement, you are essentially saying that the state should not only drug test the parents, but children of welfare recipients as well?

    What sort of 1930's nazi fantasy are you exactly proposing; one where the entire nation is required to take weekly chemical and psychological examinations?

    Good luck getting that idea to fly. Besides, drug use in the US is a minor issue if we consider taxpayer liabilities regarding the war on drugs (federal state and local).
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •