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Thread: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Oh I see, you are avoiding everything else in my post and honing in on the one thing you can try to be "right" with?

    Please address the other points in my post so I can actually give you a weighted reply, otherwise stop wasting my time.
    Wrong is wrong. If you make the decision to use drugs, you have made the choice to get addicted to those drugs. There is absolutely no way to defend drug addicts and act as if it is society's problem. Until that person has a REAL desire to rehabilitate themselves then there is nothing we can do for them. And I mean they really want to rehab, not they want to do some "rehab" program in lieu of going to jail because they were caught.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Oh well......I have no sympathy for people who ruin their lives with drugs. They made that choice.
    True, I wonder what costs more though. Welfare itself or to put someone in jail. Personally I think prisons should enforce some kind of forced labor for serious felons to help offset the cost of prisons.
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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Wrong is wrong. If you make the decision to use drugs, you have made the choice to get addicted to those drugs. There is absolutely no way to defend drug addicts and act as if it is society's problem. Until that person has a REAL desire to rehabilitate themselves then there is nothing we can do for them. And I mean they really want to rehab, not they want to do some "rehab" program in lieu of going to jail because they were caught.
    Wrong is subjective. Your morals against mine.

    A "real" desire to rehabilitate has to coincide with the rest of their life. If the rest of their life is ****, then it's going to be much harder to get off the drugs. Most people are on street drugs in the first place because they either have undiagnosed psychological problems that they are self-medicating or they are seeking escape from some life situation either past or present.

    Maybe some are wasting welfare money on drugs, but at least with the welfare there is the continual opportunity to change their surrounding environment. They can afford a place that isn't in a crack den, even if they're still using crack; they can buy food and afford heat, instead of having to pimp themselves out in exchange for basic necessities. At least with welfare their lives are better, if even marginally, and the door is always open to change.

    I mean really, what is it that you want? Do you want the underground to grow larger and larger, and become the primary provider for more and more people who are living off the grid? Because that is exactly what happens in nations without welfare. Desperate people become even more desperate, then sink deeper. If you care so little about the strength of your nation, then maybe you should move to nations where the governments either cannot afford entitlement programs whatsoever or they just have no middle class.

    I'm not disagreeing that some people abuse the system. I am saying that without the system they will be even worse off, and that is directly your problem once it starts to affect the rest of society. I swear, the right wing only thinks in one or two degrees of separation. They don't see the greater scope of how the downfall of individuals can lead to the degeneration of a nation.

    The solution is not to continue punishing addicts. The solution is to end the unjust war on drugs and use the exorbitant waste of money involved in that dismal policy failure for programs that can restore people's lives to balance. There is more than enough money in the war on drugs to do all of that and still have a huge surplus left over. The solution is not to cut entitlements.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Wrong is subjective. Your morals against mine.

    A "real" desire to rehabilitate has to coincide with the rest of their life. If the rest of their life is ****, then it's going to be much harder to get off the drugs. Most people are on street drugs in the first place because they either have undiagnosed psychological problems that they are self-medicating or they are seeking escape from some life situation either past or present.
    And as much as we have tried to educate people about the dangers of drugs, they still do it, and thus they still become poor bums dependant upon their next fix for an only marginal level of happiness. I just don't see how throwing money at them to support their habit is helping at all. I think throwing them to the wolves and forcing them to handle their problems on their own is the only way to really help them. Instead, people have no desire to attain self sufficience because they know that in today's political climate, they will always be protected in one way or another. Someone is trying to buy their vote in exchange for them to make these ignorant mistakes. "Survival of the fittest" is no more thanks to welfare programs.


    Maybe some are wasting welfare money on drugs, but at least with the welfare there is the continual opportunity to change their surrounding environment.
    No there is less opportunity to change their surrounding environment. They have no incentive to quit. Their lives are artificially better.


    I mean really, what is it that you want?
    I want people to realize that if they become addicted to drugs and cannot continue to sustain themselves while still affording their habit then there will be no help for them from the rest of society. I want people to think long and hard about the decision to do a drug for even the first time if there is a chance that they may become addicted and dependant upon the drug. I want people to start thinking about what they are doing, and realize that the mistakes they make are THEIR responsibility, not society's. I want mother ****ers to start taking personal responsibility for the situations they put themselves into and realize that only THEY can fix the problem, we aren't going to do it for them.
    If you care so little about the strength of your nation, then maybe you should move to nations where the governments either cannot afford entitlement programs whatsoever or they just have no middle class.
    We can't afford to keep shelling money out to crackheads so they won't rob us either.


    I'm not disagreeing that some people abuse the system. I am saying that without the system they will be even worse off, and that is directly your problem once it starts to affect the rest of society. I swear, the right wing only thinks in one or two degrees of separation. They don't see the greater scope of how the downfall of individuals can lead to the degeneration of a nation.
    The system is what MAKES them worse off. They don't have to take personal responsibility for anything, so why even bother trying to make the right decisions?

    The solution is not to continue punishing addicts. The solution is to end the unjust war on drugs and use the exorbitant waste of money involved in that dismal policy failure for programs that can restore people's lives to balance. There is more than enough money in the war on drugs to do all of that and still have a huge surplus left over. The solution is not to cut entitlements.
    The solution is to end the war on drugs AND cut entitlements.
    Personally I think we should end prohibition of drugs, but we shouldn't continue to artificially prop up people who become dependant upon said drugs either. If someone wants to spend all their money on alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, crack/cocaine, heroin, meth, vicodin, etc then they should have to pay for that **** out of their own pockets with no government assistance whatsoever.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    So let me get this straight, Orrin Hatch wants to increase Welfare spending?

    How conservative.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    So let me get this straight, Orrin Hatch wants to increase Welfare spending?

    How conservative.
    Obvious troll is Obvious.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Obvious troll is Obvious.
    Do you think that drug tests are free?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    So let me get this straight, Orrin Hatch wants to increase Welfare spending?

    How conservative.
    And also expand the government into peoples lives.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Wrong is subjective. Your morals against mine.

    A "real" desire to rehabilitate has to coincide with the rest of their life. If the rest of their life is ****, then it's going to be much harder to get off the drugs. Most people are on street drugs in the first place because they either have undiagnosed psychological problems that they are self-medicating or they are seeking escape from some life situation either past or present.

    Maybe some are wasting welfare money on drugs, but at least with the welfare there is the continual opportunity to change their surrounding environment. They can afford a place that isn't in a crack den, even if they're still using crack; they can buy food and afford heat, instead of having to pimp themselves out in exchange for basic necessities. At least with welfare their lives are better, if even marginally, and the door is always open to change.

    I mean really, what is it that you want? Do you want the underground to grow larger and larger, and become the primary provider for more and more people who are living off the grid? Because that is exactly what happens in nations without welfare. Desperate people become even more desperate, then sink deeper. If you care so little about the strength of your nation, then maybe you should move to nations where the governments either cannot afford entitlement programs whatsoever or they just have no middle class.

    I'm not disagreeing that some people abuse the system. I am saying that without the system they will be even worse off, and that is directly your problem once it starts to affect the rest of society. I swear, the right wing only thinks in one or two degrees of separation. They don't see the greater scope of how the downfall of individuals can lead to the degeneration of a nation.

    The solution is not to continue punishing addicts. The solution is to end the unjust war on drugs and use the exorbitant waste of money involved in that dismal policy failure for programs that can restore people's lives to balance. There is more than enough money in the war on drugs to do all of that and still have a huge surplus left over. The solution is not to cut entitlements.

    All 100% spot on.

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    Re: Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    I would be for this testing on one condition. That is that all government officials, up to the president, get drug tested as well.

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