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Thread: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    First, let me refer folks who disagree with BP having to pay for the cleanup and damages from this oil spill to the Oil Pollution Act, specifically this thread where I've highlighted the appropriate sections that outline BP's financial liability and the President's authority to collect for said cleanup and damages.

    Second, I'm so tired of hearing people whine about the President trying to bankrupt a private company when the law clearly states that this company is liable for the cleanup and damages it caused and is still causing! You sit back and say the government should stay out of the way of private business, then you bitch when that business is held liable for its complacency and negligence. And when the government has the authority to collect for damages AND is acting on behalf of those citizens and businesses (especially small businesses) that have been affected, suddenly the government is overstepping it's bounds? Give me a freakin' break!

    Moreover, you complain about the deficit. Okay, then if BP - this private company some want so desperately to protect - doesn't pay, who will? WE WILL that's who! Ah, but wait...you complained about bailing out the banks and mortgage companies and GM. I suppose you'd rather the government bailout BP if it wasn't made to step up to its ongoing financial obligation here - a price tag NOBODY knows how much it will be when this disaster if finally over.

    So, hell yeah! I'm glad the President forced BP's hand and made this multi-BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY pony up the money in an escrow account - an account that WILL accrue interest over time by the way...and at $20BILLION dollars that's alot of interest earned!!! BP will not go bankrupt. In fact, it's shares increased slightly in value upon the news that the escrow account had been established. (Read article here.) Why? Because shareholders were nervous about how stable BP would be while this oil spill continued and the company had to continue paying out the nose from it. Atleast the escrow account will ensure people that there's a pool of money the company will pull from to pay its liabilities and NOT a continuance from their dividens which shareholders seem to be fine with BP suspending for the time being (this year).

    So, as far as I'm concerned, BP like Exxon-Mobile is getting what it deserves for it's recklessness. And unless you guys - my fellow taxpayers - would rather be put on the hook for another private company's stupidity once again you'd better wise the hell up!

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    First, let me refer folks who disagree with BP having to pay for the cleanup and damages from this oil spill to the Oil Pollution Act, specifically this thread where I've highlighted the appropriate sections that outline BP's financial liability and the President's authority to collect for said cleanup and damages.

    Second, I'm so tired of hearing people whine about the President trying to bankrupt a private company when the law clearly states that this company is liable for the cleanup and damages it caused and is still causing! You sit back and say the government should stay out of the way of private business, then you bitch when that business is held liable for its complacency and negligence. And when the government has the authority to collect for damages AND is acting on behalf of those citizens and businesses (especially small businesses) that have been affected, suddenly the government is overstepping it's bounds? Give me a freakin' break!

    Moreover, you complain about the deficit. Okay, then if BP - this private company some want so desperately to protect - doesn't pay, who will? WE WILL that's who! Ah, but wait...you complained about bailing out the banks and mortgage companies and GM. I suppose you'd rather the government bailout BP if it wasn't made to step up to its ongoing financial obligation here - a price tag NOBODY knows how much it will be when this disaster if finally over.

    So, hell yeah! I'm glad the President forced BP's hand and made this multi-BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY pony up the money in an escrow account - an account that WILL accrue interest over time by the way...and at $20BILLION dollars that's alot of interest earned!!! BP will not go bankrupt. In fact, it's shares increased slightly in value upon the news that the escrow account had been established. (Read article here.) Why? Because shareholders were nervous about how stable BP would be while this oil spill continued and the company had to continue paying out the nose from it. Atleast the escrow account will ensure people that there's a pool of money the company will pull from to pay its liabilities and NOT a continuance from their dividens which shareholders seem to be fine with BP suspending for the time being (this year).

    So, as far as I'm concerned, BP like Exxon-Mobile is getting what it deserves for it's recklessness. And unless you guys - my fellow taxpayers - would rather be put on the hook for another private company's stupidity once again you'd better wise the hell up!
    First, there are laws.
    Second, where does the president get the right to dictate what a private company can or should do?
    For that there are laws and courts.

    When asked, where the President gets this power, nobody can answer.

    Last I knew this wasn't a dictatorship.

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by somepeoplesay View Post
    BP should pay for Gulf cleanup. You know why? Because it's their negligence that led to this disaster, they are responsible. I hope they go bankrupt in the process and maybe America will learn that "drill baby drill" wasn't the best option.
    It amazes me that ostensibly rational folk actually believe that by Bankrupting a Company that that Company will then be able to pay compensation and costs.

    I was surprised that BP a Company that is being portrayed as greedy and manipulative did not simply state that they would abide with the Cap on costs, instead they have stepped up to the plate and have admitted responsibility and have repeatedly stated loudly and clearly that they will pay all legitimate costs assosciated with this disaster.
    Last edited by jujuman13; 06-17-10 at 02:26 PM.

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    Zimmer,

    Go to the thread I linked to and you'll find your answers. The law is on both the President's and the people's side here. BP is fully liable and should be held accountable for this mess - they and all of their partners - Haliberton, TransOcean and anyone else found to be at fault.

    And again, I know the government is somewhat responsible for relaxing the rules or just being derelect in their duties, but it doesn't obsolved BP from taking the proper safety precausions. They were neglegent. They should pay. The escrow account helps to keep them solvent while also being a source from which to pay it's legal and moral obligations for this mess.

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Zimmer,

    Go to the thread I linked to and you'll find your answers. The law is on both the President's and the people's side here. BP is fully liable and should be held accountable for this mess - they and all of their partners - Haliberton, TransOcean and anyone else found to be at fault.

    And again, I know the government is somewhat responsible for relaxing the rules or just being derelect in their duties, but it doesn't obsolved BP from taking the proper safety precausions. They were neglegent. They should pay. The escrow account helps to keep them solvent while also being a source from which to pay it's legal and moral obligations for this mess.
    As Obama noted, BP is protected by law to pay a maximum of 75 million.
    You could say the billions upon billions in taxes they have paid are an insurance against such happenings, held in escrow (LOL) by the government.
    The representative could not answer where Obama gets this power to shake down private companies.

    Private companies need to be held accountable but not necessarily to the executive branch," said Bachmann. "It seems to me there’s a misreading of the Constitution and a misunderstanding of jurisdictional limits from this White House on what the extent of executive power is. They don’t seem to understand that and it—now it seems that it’s all about extortion--and that what they want to do is create a pot of money for themselves that they can control and that’s not what the Executive is supposed to do. There is a real misreading of jurisdictional limits, and they continue to stretch those limits beyond all bounds."
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/67800
    BTW... someone took a photo of Obama warming up before the speech.
    It explains a lot.

    I was wondering where Hillary has been hiding.

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    Last edited by zimmer; 06-17-10 at 03:14 PM.
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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    Zimmer,

    Your partican hackery aside, go to the thread I referenced and review the specific articles mentioned from the Oil Pollution Act and you'll find the answers you seek. Otherwise, stop the spin and partican hatred for goodness sakes. It's really getting old.

    JuJu,

    BP will not go bankrupt. In fact, this escrow fund will help them to stay solvent by setting aside funds the does three things:

    1) settles the anxieties of BPs shareholderes ensuring them that the company has the liquid assets to pay for the cleanup effort and it's legal liabilities to the areas and people/businesses affected by this disaster.

    2) obsolves our government from having to pick up the tab for a private entitie's negligence.

    3) provide funds to meet its legal liabilities now and very likely into the future.

    So, relax. This multi-billion dollar company will be around for a long time. They'll take a financial hit, but like Exxon, they'll cut their loses where necessary but they will survive.

    Rev Hell,

    I've been reviewing the Jones Act as well. Here's the aspect of the law that deals with oil spill recovery assistance:

    Jones Act, Chap. 121

    Sect. 12117 - Oil spill response vessels

    "(a) REQUIREMENTS.--A coastwise endorsement may be issued for a vessel that--
    "(1) satisfies the requirements for a coastwise endorsement, except for the ownership requirement otherwise applicable without regard to this section;
    "(2) is owned by a not-for-profit oil spill response cooperative or by members of such a cooperative that dedicate the vessel to use by the cooperative;
    "(3) is at least 50 percent owned by individuals or entities described in section 12103(b) of this title; and
    "(4) is to be used only for--
    "(i) deploying equipment, supplies, and personnel to recover, contain, or transport oil discharged into the navigable waters of the United States or the exclusive economic zone; or
    "(ii) training exercises to prepare to respond to such a discharge.
    The first question I had was, "What's a coastwise endorsement?"

    12112. Coastwise endorsement

    "(a) REQUIREMENTS.--A coastwise endorsement may be issued for a vessel that--
    "(1) satisfies the requirements of section 12103 of this title;
    "(2)(A) was built in the United States; or

    "(b) if not built in the United States--
    "(i) was captured in war by citizens of the United States and lawfully condemned as prize;
    "(ii) was adjudged to be forfeited for a breach of the laws of the United States; or
    "(iii) qualifies as a wrecked vessel under section 12107 of this title; and
    "(3) otherwise qualifies under the laws of the United States to engage in the coastwise trade.

    "(b) AUTHORIZED ACTIVITY.--Subject to the laws of the United States regulating the coastwise trade, a vessel for which a coastwise endorsement is issued may engage in the coastwise trade.
    So, that answers that question. Now the bigger issue...how does sect. 12103 apply?

    12103. General eligibility requirements

    "(a) IN GENERAL.--Except as otherwise provided, a certificate of documentation for a vessel may be issued under this chapter only if the vessel is--
    "(1) wholly owned by one or more individuals or entities described in subsection (b);
    "(2) at least 5 net tons as measured under part J of this subtitle; and
    "(3) not documented under the laws of a foreign country.

    "(b) ELIGIBLE OWNERS.--For purposes of subsection (a)(1), the following are eligible owners:
    "(1) An individual who is a citizen of the United States.
    "(2) An association, trust, joint venture, or other entity if--
    "(A) each of its members is a citizen of the United States; and
    "(B) it is capable of holding title to a vessel under the laws of the United States or a State.
    "(3) A partnership if--
    "(A) each general partner is a citizen of the United States; and
    "(B) the controlling interest in the partnership is owned by citizens of the United States.
    "(4) A corporation if--
    "(A) it is incorporated under the laws of the United States or a State;
    "(B) its chief executive officer, by whatever title, and the chairman of its board of directors are citizens of the United States; and
    "(C) no more of its directors are noncitizens than a minority of the number necessary to constitute a quorum.
    "(5) The United States Government.
    "(6) The government of a State.

    "(c) TEMPORARY CERTIFICATES PRIOR TO MEASUREMENT.--Notwithstanding subsection (a)(2), the Secretary may issue a temporary certificate of documentation for a vessel before it is measured.
    The overall issue that affects foreign vessels operating in the navigation lanes in and around the oil spill area is the legality of injured maritime sailor/merchant marines onboard these foreign vessels. Who will pay if they get injured or the aid ship gets damaged? I think that's the biggest stumbling block surrounding why the Jones Act hasn't been waived.

    Link to Jones Act
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-17-10 at 03:17 PM.

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post


    13 countries offered help. The thing preventing them from helpong was obama not lifting the jones act.
    The whole Jones Act thing is pretty lame... president says he will approve any waivers. coast guard says they will approve any waivers. Lost amongst it all is that no waivers are getting issued.

    However, the Dutch skimmers were approved, have already made the journey to the Gulf, and are skimming oil as we speak. So at least a whopping 1 out of the 13 countries is being allowed to help.
    Disclaimer: If you are offended by the above post, and you aren't a SJW or truther, grow a pair.

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    It should be noted though that the "dutch skimmers" are just dutch arms attached to american boats.
    Disclaimer: If you are offended by the above post, and you aren't a SJW or truther, grow a pair.

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    Re: Obama declares 'reckless' BP will pay Gulf cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Zimmer,

    Your partican hackery aside, go to the thread I referenced and review the specific articles mentioned from the Oil Pollution Act and you'll find the answers you seek. Otherwise, stop the spin and partican hatred for goodness sakes. It's really getting old.
    "Partisan hatred"... ROTFLOL... That's hilarious... never heard that one before...

    What's wrong? Is it not possible to question or mock our Dear Leader.

    I swear he's stoned. It explains why he's got little emotion, why he needs a teleprompteur incessantly, why he likes to party and golf, and why he's been slower than a chronic on the spill.

    Morning Bell: An Offer BP Couldn’t Refuse | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.
    Yesterday’s “voluntary” deal between BP and the Obama administration was nothing less than a continuation of President Barack Obama’s ongoing assault on the rule of law. Capitalism only succeeds if it is a profit and LOSS system. Well-managed firms should have every right to keep their profits, but mismanaged firms must be allowed to suffer losses. By all accounts of what transpired on the Deepwater Horizon, BP is a terribly mismanaged firm. If the damage they caused is great enough, they should be allowed to fail. Failure is a necessary component of capitalism. But this administration refuses to allow the rule of law to work. From Fannie Mae to Freddie Mac, from GM to Chrysler, from AIG to Citibank, our government continues to subvert the established rule of law. This lawlessness creates uncertainty in the business environment, and it is a huge reason why our economy is not recovering as it should be.

    Last night on CNN former Clinton Administration message man James Carville said: “It looks as if President Obama applied a little old-school Chicago persuasion to the oil executives.” Making “offers you can’t refuse” may be a great way to run the mob, but it is no way to run a country.
    Now we learn the administration flat out lied about drilling recommendations from industry experts.
    As for Ms. Browner's claim that no one was "misrepresented," Mr. Brett disputes that. Several reviewers said they had, in fact, received "apology" notes from the Interior Department acknowledging the misrepresentation. "We did not mean to imply that you also agreed with the decision to impose a moratorium on all new deepwater drilling," read one.

    All of this matters because it offers proof the moratorium was driven by politics, not safety. The drilling ban was not reviewed by experts, and was not necessary to satisfy most of the safety recommendations in Mr. Salazar's report. It was authored by political actors so Mr. Obama could look tough. A cynic might argue the ban was only added after review precisely because the Administration knew experts would refuse to endorse it.

    A big reason why those experts would have balked is because they recognize that the moratorium is indeed a threat to safety. Mr. Arnold offers at least four reasons why.

    Crude Politics - WSJ.com
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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