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Thread: Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply

  1. #51
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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
    There is no jurisdiction to ban native American courts on their own reservations. State and Federal laws don't even apply there...
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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I can't even believe that this ban was necessary to begin with. THAT is what astounds me. Why in the HELL would a judge even consider international or religious laws when making a judgment in the US? The fact that the ban to stop them from doing such nonsense was necessary is what I find so bothersome.
    You miss the entire point: It was COMPLETELY UNnecessary as Sharia law hasn't been implemented ANYwhere in the US, let alone Oklahoma.

    Additionally, Guy Incognito points out that much American case law is based on Common Law (which is British) and French law. To ignore foreign law and its influence on the formation of US law could result in the overturning of a great deal of case law and legislation.

    This is nothing but foolish grandstanding. The biggest problem is that it IS utterly unnecessary and foolish.

    I should know - the Tennessee legistlature spent days and taxpayer dollars passing a ton of these idiotic pieces of "legislation" before they wrapped up (and barely got a budget passed).

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How often is Sharia used by judges to decide cases? This sounds like something done just for popularity, since really, it has zero real effect on anything.
    Agreed.

    But while they're at it, maybe they should ban judges from considering Star Trek Federation law, too.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I can't speak to Jewish law, but you are incorrect about Native American courts. Tribal Courts do exist, and recognized Native American tribes and bands are considered sovereigns under United States law.
    Granted, but those courts do not dismiss the basic civil rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    There is no jurisdiction to ban native American courts on their own reservations. State and Federal laws don't even apply there...
    I know.. hence the hypocrisy of people for this. The US already has large areas of its territory where a group of people are living outside the law of the land and here we are talking about a group of people who might want to use aspects of Sharia law among themselves with agreement of both parties and within the law of the land.. and people are up in arms just because we are talking about muslims.. and yet Jews get this right. Hypocrites.
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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I know.. hence the hypocrisy of people for this. The US already has large areas of its territory where a group of people are living outside the law of the land and here we are talking about a group of people who might want to use aspects of Sharia law among themselves with agreement of both parties and within the law of the land.. and people are up in arms just because we are talking about muslims.. and yet Jews get this right. Hypocrites.
    Call me when every major native American school of jurisprudence calls for the death penalty in cases of apostasy and sodomy, and call me when every major school of native American jurisprudence condones wife beating, because such is the case with Islamic jurisprudence, it is not the radical view that is the only view at least in terms of fiqh. Oh and your assertion that women have a free choice within Muslim society is laughable on its face.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-17-10 at 08:06 AM.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The situation hasn't come up because the U.S. Constitution prevents Sharia law from being implemented.

    Shall we now have our lawmakers make laws that already exist on the books as well? Again, this is nothing more than grandstanding by mentioning Sharia law.

    Now what should be touted is that the law prevents from using foreign law as a precedent. But as noticed by the title of the article and thread, this was not done.

    This is just using fear tactics by saying this law prevents Sharia law from being used when it never has been or could be used in the U.S.
    If we assumed judges abide fully by the constitution, then I would fully agree with you. However, I have no faith in a system that has already ignored the constitution and altered laws plenty of other times. But again, since any such usurping of our laws would have to come from the supreme court it really wouldn't matter what AZ's law is. Therefore, in the end this law does in fact accomplish nothing as you say.

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    Re: Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply

    Some interesting links...

    Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts - Times Online

    Is Sharia law now enforceable in the United States?

    I'll leave it to you to determine any credibility to their information. But from what I'm seeing from many sources is that sharia law is already happening in Britain. Maybe that's one reason some people are already on edge. Since we have obviously been pushed to model ourselves like Britain in many other areas.

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    Re: Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Incorrect, Spiker. What's sad is that they the state legislature thinks they have the ability to define what laws can be used and applied and what can't. International law has a precise technical meaning, it is the law among nations that arises by treaties and international custom. It is the reason why, for example, international waters begin six miles off the coast.

    International law is identical to federal law. States cannot limit the ability of courts to apply international law!
    As far as I understand, however, since international law is already defined - and acceptable within the US as a basis for judicial calls, then it would still be acceptable even after the passing of this OK amendment. I might be wrong - but I don't believe this undoes anything that is already acceptable by our own nation's laws and regulations. It barrs, however, the use of what is ONLY acceptable IN Italy to be used in a US court, etc.
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    Re: Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    As far as I understand, however, since international law is already defined - and acceptable within the US as a basis for judicial calls, then it would still be acceptable even after the passing of this OK amendment. I might be wrong - but I don't believe this undoes anything that is already acceptable by our own nation's laws and regulations. It barrs, however, the use of what is ONLY acceptable IN Italy to be used in a US court, etc.
    International law is tantamount to federal law, but it isn't necessarily contained within federal statutes. If the OK legislature meant that they don't want the US courts looking to foreign domestic law, like Italian divorce law for example, then they should have said so. What they did say is that courts cannot look to "international law" which on a literal reading includes treaties to which the United States is a party. That's how a conservative constructionist like Scalia would interpret the law. Even on a liberal reading, "international law" or the law of nations is largely customary and not contained within US statutory law.

    But even if it isn't "on the books," international law is still very much a part of US law and it would take a (federal) Constitutional amendment to change that. Again, if they wanted courts to be disallowed from looking at foreign domestic law, they should have said that, and they didn't.

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