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Thread: Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And that is exactly what Sharia law and those who want to use it have to do. Sharia law has been used in the US among the Muslim community for years if not centuries. As long as what they are doing is within the legal framework of the US justice system, then there is nothing to prevent them from doing it if both parties agree. .

    Sharia law runs counter to our laws by very nature of the fact it does not provide equal representation to all.
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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I wouldn't even call it xenophobic since it represents the rejection of a legal institution -- a profoundly illiberal one at that.
    I think it depends on the motivation for the law being passed. I am no legal expert, but given that there is no Sharia law in place (from what I can tell) already effectively bans it since it has no place in the legal system.

    Banning something that is not there and has a low possibility of being there seems to be more about the statement than about actually doing anything productive or useful. At least thats how I interpret it.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
    Really, so Jewish and Native American laws are comparable to Sharia law? I don't know anything about Jewish or Native American laws or how they are used in the U.S. But I do know some things about Sharia law. Trying to compare them is rediculous. Though I do agree that any laws from any culture should not be considered in the courts. If the bill does not accomplish this, then I think it is a big mistake. So all-in-all I would agree, but your choice of wording is poor in my opinion. If outright disdain for Sharia law is racist and xenophobic, then I guess I'm racist and xenophbic. Perhaps you support the subjugation of women, death and stoning for many different offenses, and the general civil oppresion that comes from Sharia laws. If Muslims want to practics Sharia law under their own free will then they may do so currently, however they should not and are not allowed to force those laws on others even in their own religion. Maybe we should also consider allowing clitorus mutilation. To say that it's racist to ban these laws is rediculous.

    Do you consider people who are against "dry counties" xenophobes? Or what if a Christian group wanted to make homosexuality completely illegal? Would that make you a xenophobe for being against that? I think not. Double standards.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And that is exactly what Sharia law and those who want to use it have to do. Sharia law has been used in the US among the Muslim community for years if not centuries. As long as what they are doing is within the legal framework of the US justice system, then there is nothing to prevent them from doing it if both parties agree. It is no different than Jewish courts in the US, who use Jewish religious law in disputes such as divorce and financial matters.

    Jewish religious law. As long as both parties agree on using it, and it is within the framework of US law, and the legal aspects of US law are followed, then nothing prevents them from doing so.

    Jewish religious courts have existed in the US, and Europe for centuries.

    And so what? Judges have used other countries rulings as inspiration in interpretation of laws passed by the legislative, who btw, OFTEN use other countries laws and ways as motivation for the freaking laws and rules they are passing.. so it is more to do about nothing and more fearmongering and xenophobia by the US right.
    I see no fear mongering or xenophobia. . . you read "Sharia law" and latched onto Religious-issues while actually ignoring the actual purpose of this proposed law in Oklahoma - that US judges should use only US OK laws and regulations - NOT the laws and practices of other countries.

    If Jewish, Islamic or other laws ARE precedent in the US then it's still acceptable - it doesn't strike down things that the US already upholds or believe in, it strikes down what other countries uphold or believe in. . . It seems like common sense, to me, to use the laws of your own country to pass judgment in court rather than deferring to the laws of the Netherlands.

    Basically they still pissed over Rove VS Wade...
    What on EARTH does this have to DO with Roe V Wade? This isn't about abortion.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcygee View Post
    .....however they should not and are not allowed to force those laws on others even in their own religion.
    Considering Sharia Law has not been implemented in any fashion in the United States Courts, your point is moot.

    Pointing out this law bans Sharia Law from being implemented is nothing but grandstanding considering our constitution in the U.S. already prohibits Sharia law from being implemented.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I agree that judges and legislatures (for that matter) within the US should only consider US law and precedent. That's just common sense.
    It's also dead wrong. US law isn't the only law that ought to be considered in American jurisprudence. And even the most conservative judges and justices regularly cite to foreign sources, and it's nothing new, they've been doing it since 1776. I wonder how gun rights activists will feel when this statute bars the citation of the Seymane's case, an English case that established the "Castle" doctrine ("A man's home is his castle.").

    You can't ban foreign law because our law is rooted in "foreign" law, and you can't ban international law because international law is just as binding on the states as federal law. Not to mention that, as has been observed above, shari'a is automatically banned under the first amendment. Frankly, whoever wrote this law is out of their depth. It's only a matter of time before this nonsense gets struck down as an unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Considering Sharia Law has not been implemented in any fashion in the United States Courts, your point is moot.

    Pointing out this law bans Sharia Law from being implemented is nothing but grandstanding considering our constitution in the U.S. already prohibits Sharia law from being implemented.
    I agree that this law changes nothing at the moment. But don't feel it hurts anything to ensure a firm stance on how things should be handled if the issue arises. Why wait to implement a law after you have an issue, and after some damage has already been done. Implementing sharia law IS something that is being pushed for. I don't find it out of the possibility for a judge or group of judges trying to permit Sharia law for cultural sensitivity or under the guise that it denies muslims their freedom of religion. I mean agree or disagree with abortion, but it was given protection under the "right of privacy". Which obviously has nothing to do with allowing things like abortion. The point is if the supreme court wants to allow something, they'll find a part of the constitution to force it under. But then again the state law won't matter if the supreme court rules on it. This really only protects them from state judges.

    I was simply responding to the comments that laws against Sharia law were racist and xenophobic. Not that we need to stop the current implementations of Sharia law. So no, it was not moot. I wish it were.
    Last edited by Mcygee; 06-15-10 at 12:22 PM.

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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    I can't even believe that this ban was necessary to begin with. THAT is what astounds me. Why in the HELL would a judge even consider international or religious laws when making a judgment in the US? The fact that the ban to stop them from doing such nonsense was necessary is what I find so bothersome.

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    Re: Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I love the idea of this, if only such a law was enacted on the federal level. Of course I am sure some loons will say the proposed law is Islamic or xenophobic. But **** those loons, I am pretty sure that they have nothing to base their claim on. Foreign period law should have no bearing on a domestic case. I could care less if for example we decided to copy everyone one of Mexico's anti-illegal immigration laws, a judge should not look to see how Judges in Mexico handle those cases.

    I find it odd that the title ABC used blatantly left out the the international laws being banned in their title, perhaps this is deliberate.


    Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply - ABC News

    Oklahoma is poised to become the first state in the nation to ban state judges from relying on Islamic law known as Sharia when deciding cases.

    The ban is a cornerstone of a "Save our State" amendment to the Oklahoma constitution that was recently approved by the Legislature.

    The amendment -- which also would forbid judges from using international laws as a basis for decisions -- will now be put before Oklahoma's voters in November. Approval is expected.

    snip....

    The proposed Oklahoma amendment is aimed, in part, at "cases of first impression," legal disputes in which there is no law or precedent to resolve the matter at hand.

    In such cases, judges might look to laws or rulings in other jurisdictions for guidance. The proposed amendment would block judges in Oklahoma courts from drawing on sharia, or the laws of other nations, in such decisions.

    The amendment also is a response to what some conservatives see as a pernicious trend -- cases of liberal judges mostly notably Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, using foreign laws to shape their opinions in U.S. cases.

    "It should not matter what France might do, what Great Britain might do, or what the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia might do," Duncan said. "Court decisions ought to be based on federal law, or state law."
    This is stupid. We don't need a law that says this, of course the government cannot rule by Sharia law. It's a secular government and we don't rule by the laws of gods, but rather the laws of man. This is really stupid, and only a show of interest against Muslims in general since the law has no real world worth or practicality. I don't know who would endorse such stupidity.
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    Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I can't even believe that this ban was necessary to begin with. THAT is what astounds me. Why in the HELL would a judge even consider international or religious laws when making a judgment in the US? The fact that the ban to stop them from doing such nonsense was necessary is what I find so bothersome.
    There are a multitude of reasons why a judge would consider international law. It is done all the time. According to the SCOTUS in The Paquete Habana case, "international law is part of our law." More recently, In re Estate of Ferdinand E. Marcos Human Rights Litigation., "It is ... well settled that the law of nations is part of federal common law."

    OK simply doesn't have the authority to do this.

    Here's the proposed addition to the OK Constitution:
    Quote Originally Posted by OK HJR 1056
    C. The Courts provided for in subsection A of this section, when exercising their judicial authority, shall uphold and adhere to the law as provided in the United States Constitution, the Oklahoma Constitution, the United States Code, federal regulations promulgated pursuant thereto, established common law, the Oklahoma Statutes and rules promulgated pursuant thereto, and if necessary the law of another state of the United States provided the law of the other state does not include Sharia Law, in making judicial decisions. The courts shall not look to the legal precepts of other nations or cultures. Specifically, the courts shall not consider international law or Sharia Law. The provisions of this subsection shall apply to all cases before the respective courts including, but not limited to, cases of first impression.
    That is patently absurd. I hate to break it to you, Oklahoma, but International law is federal law. This is like OK trying to amend its constitution to say that the courts can't look to federal law. Literally.

    As for Shari'a, I think this is just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. If you think that there is a serious concern about the implementation of shari'a in US courts, you have too little faith in our first amendment. This addition to the OK constitution is just redundant, and considering how obviously unnecessary it is, it carries the strong odor of anti-Islamic sentiment. It is disingenuous to think otherwise.

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