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Thread: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

  1. #421
    Educator Alastor's Avatar
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Yes, David Weigel works for the Washington Post. He primarily blogs on Libertarian and Conservative issues. Plus, he contributes to a Libertarian magazine, which makes me assume that he himself is a Conservative.
    Okay, I accept that. I saw that he wrote for the Washington Post and kind of immediately presumed he was a liberal. My error there.

    I accept your assertion and apologize for jumping to the conclusion that he was a liberal.


    I still fail to see how that turns into "some Conservatives".
    Well, how many conservatives we're talking about is unknown. I think that behind closed doors, the vast majority of conservatives would admit this was a blatant set up. I'm a conservative and I've done so publicly. Weigel is a conservative, and he seems to acknowledge that likelyhood as well. So does whomever his un-named source is.

    There are other conservatives in this thread that have had the integrity and character to call a duck a duck as well - and probably among actual conservatives away from a place they could be quoted they'd confess the same thing.

    So "some" meaning, "More than one, probably quite a few. I'd wager the vast majority. But they're not going to publicly admit it so we don't know exactly how many."

    Enough that it merits some investigation if we genuinely care about our political system and social progress though.



    Frankly, I'd rather deal with what we do know than theorize about possibilities.
    And I'd rather at least attempt to discover the truth rather than accept the lie spoon-fed to us by political operatives. If we start accepting it now on our own behalf as conservatives, it won't be long before it's used against us as well.


    Are you kidding me? What happened to taking responsibility for your own actions?
    I've never argued we shouldn't take responsibility for our own actions. Quite the contrary in fact. Find any post in this thread by me that in any way excuses what Etheridge did. I can save you the trouble though; You won't find one.

    On the contrary, what I've called for is some major accountability for Etheridge. I've also called for accountability for the political dishonesty, propaganda, and blatant degradation of our political system in order to try to discredit someone else's personal character rather than engage the issues.

    If anything, I'm the only loud conservative voice I see in this thread that is calling for accountability. Accountability for every person involved, not just those that sit across the aisle from me.

    I'm calling for that because I believe that the issues matter, because I believe character matters, and because to me integrity is not a sometimes thing.

    Won't you join me?

  2. #422
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post

    On the contrary, what I've called for is some major accountability for Etheridge. I've also called for accountability for the political dishonesty, propaganda, and blatant degradation of our political system in order to try to discredit someone else's personal character rather than engage the issues.
    Irrelevant to the topic. Our political system is not at risk here, just one guys political career and possibly a criminal fine with probation. There is no dishonesty, no propaganda, no blatant degradation. You make up accusations with no to defend actions of a Congressman who assaults someone in broad daylight on the street and is caught on camera doing it. Where's YOUR accountability? I hope your at least getting paid for such nonsense because as you can tell, your persuasion powers are lacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    If anything, I'm the only loud conservative voice I see in this thread that is calling for accountability. Accountability for every person involved, not just those that sit across the aisle from me.
    Everyone's a loud conservative or claims to be. The only accountability needed here is for Etheridge and for your calls for that - you're to be commended. The rest of the creative writing story of some cabal of Republicans etc.etc... belongs in the conspiracy theory trash can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I'm calling for that because I believe that the issues matter, because I believe character matters, and because to me integrity is not a sometimes thing.

    Won't you join me?
    The only character and integrity at question here is that of Etheridge and no, I for one do not join with fakes who cannot be honest. I hope that "join me" bupkus was some sort of badly executed sarcasm.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Educator Alastor's Avatar
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Fair enough, Ockham.

    To me, the entire context of a situation matters. I don't know how one can claim to make good decisions and judgments without knowing the full situation, but if that's your choice so be it.

    I also very much stand by the statement that in order for my stance to be strong, for my party to be strong, and to ensure that I'm living up to my responsibility as a citizen, I need to demand integrity. From myself and from my allies, as well as from my adversaries.

    I'm not here to "win."

    I'm here to make the world a better place.

    I don't know how we can do that with only parts of the information and without being honest about things.

  4. #424
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Fair enough, Ockham.

    To me, the entire context of a situation matters. I don't know how one can claim to make good decisions and judgments without knowing the full situation, but if that's your choice so be it.
    You've presented no evidence there is such a context therefore, there's nothing else to consider until such time as that occurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I also very much stand by the statement that in order for my stance to be strong, for my party to be strong, and to ensure that I'm living up to my responsibility as a citizen, I need to demand integrity. From myself and from my allies, as well as from my adversaries.
    You claimed to be a conservative... what "party" are you referring to? And let me point out that's exactly the problem and why you've gotten such hard push back ... you're for "party" instead of for "equal justice under the law". Frankly, I find it ironic as hell that you're claiming integrity when your fictional demonization of these kids who asked this Congressman a question has been so broad and conspiracy like. You cannot claim to represent truth, morals and integrity when it's obvious that your words do not represent those same things. That's called "hypocrisy".

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I'm not here to "win."
    Let me break a sad fact to you --- there is no "win" on the internet. There's no final game, this isn't Highlander where "there can be only one" and you claim the prize of the universe. You don't get even a stupid teddy bear for "win" - there's just sharing ideas, opinions and growth as an individual. If you cannot grasp that concept you will be guaranteed failure. Grow up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I'm here to make the world a better place.
    Do that by being honest, trustworthy and credible. All three things your posts in this thread have not been. Turn over a new leaf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I don't know how we can do that with only parts of the information and without being honest about things.
    I just told you how YOU can do that - you cannot influence "we". Start with yourself.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Frankly, I could care less who they are. Even if they are a part of some big conspiracy, it still doesn't justify what Etheridge did.
    That sums it up as to how this society is all about not taking responsibility for their own actions.
    Over and over we see it where everyone wants to play the "victim card" no matter what they did.

    Just like out here in the Northwest where Senator Larry Craig was caught in an airport men's restroom and he wanted to play the poor victim of a sting operation.

    Am so tired of wimps.

  6. #426
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You've presented no evidence there is such a context therefore, there's nothing else to consider until such time as that occurs.
    You're mistaken. You've chosen to dismiss the contexts, but that doesn't mean they don't exist nor does it mean I haven't posted them.

    You claimed to be a conservative... what "party" are you referring to?
    For the record I'm a member of the Republican Party.

    And let me point out that's exactly the problem and why you've gotten such hard push back ... you're for "party" instead of for "equal justice under the law".
    I disagree. In fact I've called for accountability for Etheridge many times. People keep making this assertion against me, and it's a false claim. I've responded to it every single time with the same line, "Find even one post in this thread that in any way what-so-ever defends Etheridge." You won't. In fact, I've called for him to be held accountable. I think he should be prosecuted. This is not an acceptable response from a member of our government.

    Once again, you've made the same accusation against me more than once, and I have answered it more than once. I won't stop answering it no matter how often it's repeated. Each time I answer it it lends crediblity to me, and undermines your own. The attempt to misportray me only works if I stop responding, and I assure you that this is not going to happen.

    You can either stop trying to levy false accusations against me, or I'll repeatedly challenge you to do what I've now challenged several of you to do several times; find any one shred of excuse I've offered for Etheridge. Find any one statement by me made on this web site or any other that defends him. You won't. You'll find quite the opposite in fact.

    I'm not going to stop responding to these false accusations, and each time I do it shows my credibility and I get a chance to remind people that you're making things up about me.

    Feel free to continue to pursue this course of action. It will not result in any different outcomes than it already has.




    On the topic of accountability, I'm also interested in who sent the trackers. I think any intelligent person would be.



    Frankly, I find it ironic as hell that you're claiming integrity when your fictional demonization of these kids
    I haven't demonized them. I've said that they certainly do appear to be political trackers. Nothing more. I've never discounted that they could be telling the truth. I've simply pointed out that the claims that they were "just students" working "on a project" does not make sense as it has been presented here. The story doesn't jive. That's reality.

    I didn't call them baby-eaters. I didn't call them thugs. I've said the story explaining them doesn't make sense, and that the longer that remains the case the more solid I think the case becomes that they were indeed political activists rather than students just working on a project.

    But again, making false statements about me doesn't really harm me, and I will continue to address them each time they come up. My character has remained consistent. My integrity is present. I'm not afraid of going over this again and again. I'm not the one making things up to try to silence someone else's points.




    I see no reason other than cowardice to not acknowledge that the story being portrayed about who the two cameramen really were does not jive. I see no reason other than the fear of finding out an answer we don't like for not asking where they came from and how this situation came to pass.

    I think anyone not asking those questions, already thinks they know the answer, and just doesn't want anyone to confirm it.
    Last edited by Alastor; 06-17-10 at 10:10 AM.

  7. #427
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I see no reason other than cowardice to not acknowledge that the story being portrayed about who the two cameramen really were does not jive.
    Because you've provided no evidence. Let me define "evidence" for you because you seem to not know what it is, or do not acknowledge what it is.

    And btw, if you're a Republican conservative, I MUST be a communist progressive.



    What is evidence

    In this case, your personal views or experience are not considered. Nor is your observation and opinion based on that observation considered. Due to this medium, we require physical evidence... either more video, a video or written dialoge, or at the very least - journals or periodicals which can be verified. You've provided none of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I see no reason other than the fear of finding out an answer we don't like for not asking where they came from and how this situation came to pass.
    The reason is because you've not provided a foundation nor enough substance to convince anyone of your opinion... and it IS opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I think anyone not asking those questions, already thinks they know the answer, and just doesn't want anyone to confirm it.
    Lack off evidence does not equate a conclusion. You need to get the basics of logic, debate and understand concepts of evidence. You're circular logic may work on some generic Yahoo forum but it doesn't work very well here --- but you'll find that out.

    Good luck!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #428
    Educator Alastor's Avatar
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Because you've provided no evidence. Let me define "evidence" for you because you seem to not know what it is, or do not acknowledge what it is.
    Now you've resorted to being condescending. You really do want to silence me don't you? Willing to use any method to do so - except actually engage the question at hand.

    I've posted the evidence before.

    You continue to make things up about me, call me names, and generally try to insult and antagonize me. That's fine. You keep doing that. I don't mind the admission that you don't want to engage the question.

    Why don't you want to know who these cameramen were, Ockham? What are you afraid the answer will be?

    Why are you afraid to ask the question and find the answer?

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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Now you've resorted to being condescending. You really do want to silence me don't you? Willing to use any method to do so - except actually engage the question at hand.

    I've posted the evidence before.
    You've posted nothing. And I was much more condescending in prior posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    You continue to make things up about me, call me names, and generally try to insult and antagonize me. That's fine. You keep doing that. I don't mind the admission that you don't want to engage the question.
    Taken right out of "Rules for Radicals". Now the accusation and victimization phase begins. Next will be attempts to discredit or maybe I have that reversed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Why don't you want to know who these cameramen were, Ockham? What are you afraid the answer will be?

    Why are you afraid to ask the question and find the answer?
    Post it and I'll take a look. Everyone else ditched this thread except me because I have a tendency to feed trolls... flaw of mine. But now, even I'm bored.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #430
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    Re: Etheridge caught in on-camera confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Fair enough, Ockham.

    To me, the entire context of a situation matters. I don't know how one can claim to make good decisions and judgments without knowing the full situation, but if that's your choice so be it.

    I also very much stand by the statement that in order for my stance to be strong, for my party to be strong, and to ensure that I'm living up to my responsibility as a citizen, I need to demand integrity. From myself and from my allies, as well as from my adversaries.

    I'm not here to "win."

    I'm here to make the world a better place.

    I don't know how we can do that with only parts of the information and without being honest about things.
    You are on a debate board to make the world a better place? You may want to rethink your strategy

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