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Thread: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

  1. #41
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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    I would be willing to bet that the Times article is the truth and that the Saudis want to look publicly like they are not supporting the Jew in any way. The Haaretz article is probably what they want out there publicly but someone who was suppose to keep quiet opened there mouth. I also wouldnt think the Israelis would want the Iranians to know whether they had flyover permission either so as to not let the Iranians know where the hell the attack is coming from.
    ^ this
    the saudis cannot afford to publicly be seen as acquiescing to israel's desire for air space to make the run on iran
    that would incite unrest in the moslem world, as it would enable jewish israel to strike islamic iran
    make no mistake, osama bin forgotten is the George Washington of the disenfranchised moslems of that region. he could not be seen as tolerating his cousins aiding a jewish strike on an islamic nation

    that said, the iraqi war has been nothing but a cluster**** for the saudi rulers
    sunni dominated iraq created a buffer for the saudis. that a shia led iraq is now well within the iranian orbit must make the house of saud uneasy

    the creation of a nuclear weapons capability by iran could noticbly upset the dominence of saudi arabi in the region ... which would be the saudis rationale for unofficially looking for nothing and seeing nothing as the israeli airforce flew overhead in a misguided effort to take out iran's nuclear facilities
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    Iran has been at odds at Saudi Arabia in the past and they definitely have an extremely adversarial relationship. No lost love there

    Saudi Arabia has it in their 2 faced backstabbing minds that because they have cooperated with the west in the past, they're a potential target.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    They won't have to "fight their way through Syrian airspace." As I pointed out, Israel's EW capability, added to the complete lack of Syrian aircraft on the Northern border would effectively mean Israel could fly over Syria without even being spotted by Syrian air defense systems.
    EW is not a cloaking device. Its possible for Israel to avoid detection by using terrain following flight and a small number of aircraft. However, they cannot fly at cruising altitude with a large fleet and a tanker aircraft. The distances involve require a range optimized flight path making stealth nearly impossible. Even hypothetically assuming they made it across undetected, they would give away their presence once they attacked Iran, making it unavoidable they would be attacked on the way back.

    Depends on the site, and you have to understand that you can serevely cripple a site without actually destroying it, which still completes your goal of delaying a nuclear Iran.
    With a seriously hardened site, like a facility inside a mountain, you aren't going to do even minimal damage.

    In terms of refueling, there are multiple options to extend the range (by quite a bit) of the F-15E without the use of a refueling tanker.
    Like what? You can either carry more fuel with external tanks or with a tanker aircraft, but that is it.

    All of this ignores however, that Syria would most likely not even spot an Israel tanker if Israel conducted the mission properly.
    True, but that is because Israel wouldn't fly over Syria if they were conducting the mission properly.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    I would guess because the Saudis are used to being the top dog in the Middle East and in recent years Iran has tried to challenge them.
    Perhaps it's because Iran is trying to take over all of the Arabian peninsula through the use of terrorism and infiltration by Hezbollah. Ask Lebanon.
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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    Perhaps it's because Iran is trying to take over all of the Arabian peninsula through the use of terrorism and infiltration by Hezbollah. Ask Lebanon.
    Lebanon isn't on the Arabian peninsula. Plus don't the Saudi's also fund terrorism abroad as well?
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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    Remember that Iran is neither Arab, nor of the same type of Islamic faith as Iran is.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    They couldn't expect to fight their way through Syrian airspace because there shouldn't be any fight.
    There was no fight in 2008 when Israeli jets have taken out the Syrian nuclear reactor.
    Israel managed to perform a single strike on one unreinforced base using 8 aircraft. That is not comparable to flying across the entire nation at cruising altitude carrying bunker busting munitions, attacking bases in Iran, and then coming back.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    EW is not a cloaking device. Its possible for Israel to avoid detection by using terrain following flight and a small number of aircraft. However, they cannot fly at cruising altitude with a large fleet and a tanker aircraft. The distances involve require a range optimized flight path making stealth nearly impossible. Even hypothetically assuming they made it across undetected, they would give away their presence once they attacked Iran, making it unavoidable they would be attacked on the way back.
    I agree EW is not a fantastic cloaking device that would make such a mission a breeze, but the Syrian's have already proven incapable of detecting Israel aircraft using such techniques, as with the 2007 Israeli raid into Syria. Not to say this would not be more involved, as it obviously would be, but it is doable against a very limited Syrian defense threat.

    They might get hit on the way back, but they might not. Syria would still have to scramble fighters from bases that are not really along the Northern route to intercept. Maybe they would maybe they wouldn't, if I was an Israeli policy maker seriously considering the airstrike option, it is a risk I would take.

    With a seriously hardened site, like a facility inside a mountain, you aren't going to do even minimal damage.
    True, but with such a site even an airstrike would not be all that effective either.

    Like what? You can either carry more fuel with external tanks or with a tanker aircraft, but that is it.
    Tankers would be the best option, but in their absence, or limited availability (since Israel is thought to not have enough to conduct this raid anyway), you have other options:

    1) An in flight refueling (IFR) probe could be incorporated into the F-15E to give the aircraft the capability to refuel from drogue configured tankers.
    2) Buddy Refueling between F-15Es that can be packaged in an external tank or CFT. This would be useful in an emergency situation when Strike Missions are in Egress from the target area.
    3) Larger External Tanks (Dropped Tanks). These tanks would have a fuel capacity of 800 gallons compared to the standard 610 gallons. The F-15E‘s mission radius would then be increased by about 10%.
    4) Additional Internal Fuel added to the outer wing of the F-15E. This would increase the mission radius by 2%
    5) Larger Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFTs). The F-15E could still carry the air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons and external pods as well as the fuel tanks. This would increase the mission radius by 5%.

    Different a bit for the F-16's, but you get the general idea. Perhaps I should have been a little more clear in my initial statement that "it could be done without a tanker" since this is more or less that, just in a different form.

    True, but that is because Israel wouldn't fly over Syria if they were conducting the mission properly.
    Any other route poses to large of a political risk in my opinion. I could be wrong on that, but that is what I think.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Israel managed to perform a single strike on one unreinforced base using 8 aircraft. That is not comparable to flying across the entire nation at cruising altitude carrying bunker busting munitions, attacking bases in Iran, and then coming back.
    Well actually that expresses the freedom of movement Israeli jets can practice in the Syrian airspace next to the Israeli-Syrian border.
    Besides that Israel wouldn't have to fly though the entire Syrian nation, but simply cross it through its northern border.
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    Re: Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

    By the way, I've just recalled that the plane that took down the arms-smuggling convoy in Sudan during the 2008-2009 Gaza War was actually Israel's best UAV, the Eitan. (An improved Heron UAV)

    Its range is 4603+ miles, according to Wikipedia.
    Meaning it could easily reach Iran.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Eitan
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 06-13-10 at 06:19 PM.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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