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Thread: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

  1. #31
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Good diverson. Quacks like a duck and sounds like a duck, must be a duck. You are defending BP and the right is defending BP. My assumption is because it is the popular position for the right to take now.
    So far in this process I've said that BP should (and will) be 100% liable for the cost of cleanup and will end up paying for the vast majority (if not all) of the secondary costs of the spill. I've also defended Obama from the unfair accusations that the spill is somehow his fault. If you consider that "the popular position for the right," I'm not sure what else to say.
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    So, BP is the Victim here? That dog don't hunt. The reason the right and the pundits are up in arms is soley because Obama's name is on it.
    QFT
    This phony outrage is really starting to irk me. BP hasn't got the money to properly compensate the Gulf coast for the loses in tourism that this massive spill is generating. Not to mention the shrimping industry. Oh, and I think this oil spill is causing a slight problem for the wildlife in that region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    BP should and has acknowledged it will pay for the spill and are doing everything possible to try and contain the leak. That is where its responsibility finishes imo.

    I am getting fed up of Obama's continuing attacks on the company as if it helps dragging down its shares and threatening to prevent dividends, he must be the only person who keeps on calling it British Petroleum.
    His use of this spill to try and divert attention from his failures domestically fails and sooner or later UK Government will respond to this due to the importance of BP to British taxpayers and pensioners.
    And I'm fed up with people thinking that British Petroleum's "promise" to pay only "legitmate" claims is somehow to solution to the problem. Don't you see how they snuck that "legitmate" in there? That's execuspeak for, "We're going to litigate any real claims into nonexistence and you can't do anything to stop us." I can only hope that Obama has the strength of will to truly go after British Petroleum for the money they owe. Sorry about your pension, but we need to gut this company like a fish.

  3. #33
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    QFT
    This phony outrage is really starting to irk me. BP hasn't got the money to properly compensate the Gulf coast for the loses in tourism that this massive spill is generating. Not to mention the shrimping industry.
    Do you have a link for this?

    And I'm fed up with people thinking that British Petroleum's "promise" to pay only "legitmate" claims is somehow to solution to the problem. Don't you see how they snuck that "legitmate" in there? That's execuspeak for, "We're going to litigate any real claims into nonexistence and you can't do anything to stop us." I can only hope that Obama has the strength of will to truly go after British Petroleum for the money they owe. Sorry about your pension, but we need to gut this company like a fish.
    Perhaps there is some confusion, but whether or not Obama "goes after" BP for secondary costs is not dispositive of whether or not people who suffer losses due to the spill will be able to recover those expenses from BP. That's what the court system is there for.
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  4. #34
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Sorry, this is more than that. The oil companies are not victims.
    Contrary to popular belief, BP is doing exactly what they are supposed to do, as we speak.

    When it comes to populist nonsense, I'll side with the evil corporation on this one.
    Anything the White House does to affect people, not involved with the oil spill, is the responsibility of the White House.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Do you have a link for this?
    Here you go, the first three links from "florida tourism oil spill."

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...n-edge/1091442
    Gulf oil spill influences Southwest Florida tourism | news-press.com | The News-Press
    Florida Tourism Playground Braces for Oil Slick's Arrival

    You may not be aware, NYC, but the Gulf Coast is famous for its "white sand" beaches, and the whole millions of gallons of gushing oil thing have been kind of messing that up lately. And it's not over. It's impossible to estimate how much damage this oil spill is going to do in the long run, especially since there is no foreseeable plan to stop it.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Perhaps there is some confusion, but whether or not Obama "goes after" BP for secondary costs is not dispositive of whether or not people who suffer losses due to the spill will be able to recover those expenses from BP. That's what the court system is there for.
    I'm no expert, but I know that there is plenty a US president can do to make life difficult for a multinational company, and make sure that it is in their best financial interest to pay what they owe without making the innocent people they injured jump through the hoops of litigation.

    And by the way, it sure sounds like you're defending BP to me...
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 06-15-10 at 11:47 PM.

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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Please reread my post. I'm asking you for a link to support this claim:

    Quote Originally Posted by You
    BP hasn't got the money to properly compensate the Gulf coast for the loses in tourism that this massive spill is generating.
    Nothing in those links says a single thing about whether or not BP will be able to make these people whole.

    You may not be aware, NYC, but the Gulf Coast is famous for its "white sand" beaches, and the whole millions of gallons of gushing oil thing have been kind of messing that up lately. And it's not over. It's impossible to estimate how much damage this oil spill is going to do in the long run, especially since there is no foreseeable plan to stop it.
    If it's impossible to estimate, then maybe you shouldn't draw conclusions about whether or not BP will be able to pay for it.

    I'm no expert, but I know that there is plenty a US president can do to make life difficult for a multinational company, and make sure that it is in their best financial interest to pay what they owe without making the innocent people they injured jump through the hoops of litigation.
    Again, you're not really responding to what I'm saying. If Obama washed his hands of this and never mentioned BP again, that would have little impact on whether people would be able to hold BP liable for damages.

    And by the way, it sure sounds like you're defending BP to me...
    Then you're not really understanding what I'm saying.
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    For Q1 2010 (3/31/2010), BP had a net income of $6.079billion, with cash and equivalents of $6.841billion, total assets of $240.637 billion, total liabilities of $136.558 billion, and total cash from operations of $7.693 billion. taken from here and here.

    The tourism industry has an economic impact of $57 billion on Florida’s economy.

    So BP's total assets minus total liabilities will be enough to cover Florida's tourism for a little under two years, which doesn't factor in all other sources of state income that the beaches draw, like retirees. And thats not counting Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama. And that is assuming they sell all their assets and liquidate the entire company to pay for the damage they have done. So no, British Pertroleum doesn't have enough money to make the Gulf Coast all better.

    Moreover, you seem to be egregiously and/or naively overestimating the ability of the courts to make people whole again after being injured. Let me tell you, it ain't that easy. There is a tremendous burden of proof for plaintiffs in tort cases, not to mention the sheer cost of litigating. It's not like BP is just going to roll over and open its pockets, they have to be forced.

    Frankly, I think you are being disingenuous about this, NYC. You'd definitely be singing a different tune if this disaster happened in the Long Island Sound.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 06-16-10 at 12:27 AM.

  8. #38
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I think you're the one who isn't understanding what I'm saying, NYC, or perhaps you're doing it deliberately. Anyway, doesn't matter, I just looked it up:

    For Q1 2010 (3/31/2010), BP had a net income of $6.079billion, with cash and equivalents of $6.841billion, total assets of $240.637 billion, total liabilities of $136.558 billion, and total cash from operations of $7.693 billion. taken from here and here.

    The tourism industry has an economic impact of $57 billion on Florida’s economy.

    So BP's total assets minus total liabilities will be enough to cover Florida's tourism for a little under two years, which doesn't factor in all other sources of state income that the beaches draw, like retirees. And thats not counting Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama. And that is assuming they sell all their assets and liquidate the entire company to pay for the damage they have done. So no, British Pertroleum doesn't have enough money to make the Gulf Coast all better.
    So your theory is that because of the oil spill, the travel industry in Florida will take in zero revenue for the next two years?

    Moreover, you seem to be egregiously and/or naively overestimating the ability of the courts to make people whole again after being injured. Let me tell you, it ain't that easy. There is a tremendous burden of proof for plaintiffs in tort cases, not to mention the sheer cost of litigating. It's not like BP is just going to roll over and open its pockets, they have to be forced.
    Beyond the already ongoing compensation process, there will be various class actions, almost all of which will result in settlements. Burdens of proof only come into play when cases go to trial, and there's no chance in hell BP is letting this get in front of a jury.

    Frankly, I think you are being disingenuous about this, NYC. You'd definitely be singing a different tune if this disaster happened in the Long Island Sound.
    I don't think that's true.
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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So your theory is that because of the oil spill, the travel industry in Florida will take in zero revenue for the next two years?
    Honestly, I have no idea. I hope not. But that was just to illustrate the figures we're talking about. The damage caused by this spill is going to last decades, not just two years. I wouldn't be surprised if tourism is cut in half. And, again, we're not just talking about simply tourism, but unquantifiable numbers. How do you compensate a retirement community for people who choose to retire in California instead? How do you compensate the doctors who lose those patients? How do you compensate the restaurants and grocery stores and utilities companies? You're not really thinking big picture here.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Beyond the already ongoing compensation process, there will be various class actions, almost all of which will result in settlements. Burdens of proof only come into play when cases go to trial, and there's no chance in hell BP is letting this get in front of a jury.
    Burdens of proof come into play in settlements as well. A company is not going to be as willing to settle when they don't think the other side has a case, nor will the settle for as high as figure as they would otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I don't think that's true.
    More fool you, then.

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    Re: BP eyes showdown with US govt on liability-BP source

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Honestly, I have no idea. I hope not. But that was just to illustrate the figures we're talking about. The damage caused by this spill is going to last decades, not just two years. I wouldn't be surprised if tourism is cut in half. And, again, we're not just talking about simply tourism, but unquantifiable numbers. How do you compensate a retirement community for people who choose to retire in California instead? How do you compensate the doctors who lose those patients? How do you compensate the restaurants and grocery stores and utilities companies? You're not really thinking big picture here.
    More important question, how does a restaurant quanitify the amount of business lost from something like this?

    Burdens of proof come into play in settlements as well. A company is not going to be as willing to settle when they don't think the other side has a case, nor will the settle for as high as figure as they would otherwise.
    This is just not true. Companies settle things all the time when they would win by going to court. Often going to court and getting aquitted is far more expensive than just settling. Companies will look at the business of it, and then make a decision.

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