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Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

In fact you did. For we had a post which talked about cracking down on the companies which hire illegal immigrants to which you responded that you wish the government would. Yet when I mentioned that there were such companies and if you were really worried about it you'd look into and stop buying from them; you claimed that you needed a list as if no such company exists. So which is it? Should we come down hard on the government for allowing companies to hire illegal aliens, or are there no companies which hire illegal aliens.

If you actually think a landscape company with a couple illegal aliens cutting grass is "promoting" illegal immigration, then I can't help you. You are so far into left field that I have no interest in further discussions on the subject with you.

:2wave:
 
I doubt that anyone who supports illegal immigrants gives two ****s about your disapproval of their stance. I'm sure some even revel in it.



Wait. Your family came here from Cuba, right?

Think about how your comments relate to their deeply personal decision to GTFO of Cuba. If not their own decision, then think of millions of other Cubans who made the deeply personal decision to leave their homeland for political and ideological reasons after Castro took power.

Your theory sucks.

Just out of curiosity, how does your example of a blood thirsty regime in Cuba relate to Arizona's law?

I must have missed the part in that law where people are shot in the middle of the night.
 
No, not at all. There have been raids on factories and industries for using illegal immigrants. Greely had a huge raid on the meat packing plant there. Many seasonal agricultural products such as strawberries are harvested with illegal alien labor. Lawn care services the country over hire many illegal immigrants because they can pay them poorly. A lot of construction is done with illegal immigrant labor. I mean, I figured this stuff was common knowledge at this point. But instead we have you trying to deflect away not only the fact that this takes place regularly, but your duty to understand and know about it. It's piss poor. People want to bitch about the illegal immigrant problem, but it's a problem through our consumerism. If we changed that, we could affect the system. But it takes getting up off your fat, lazy ass to do something about it. An act not many seem to want to do. In fact, you yourself are a prime example. You wanted the answer handed to you and when you didn't get it, you just ignored the problem. So thanks for contributing to the problem and working hard to be intellectually dishonest and lazy about it. But it's not doing anything to help out where we are at or to drive us to better circumstances. For that, you need educated consumerism. And no, the answer will not be given to you. You're going to actually have to do some work. Sorry, but the system doesn't stay controlled and regulated through no effort. You have to expend energy to keep the Republic going. So do it, or shut up. Because if you're just going to be part of the problem, no one wants to hear you bitching about the problem.

No citizens besides the ones owning businesses hiring illegal aliens ever thought that "Hey, if we just ignored the immigration laws and let as many illegals from Mexico into this country my life would be so much better." The average conservative at least always wanted immigration laws enforced. Maybe some of the conservative politicians acted otherwise but conservatives in general would always want immigration laws enforced including against companies hiring illegal aliens. No politician ran on a platform of lax immigration law enforcement. To blame the citizens for the gross negligence of our government is ridiculous. To suggest the average citizen must now solve the problem is equally ridiculous. We certainly should let our vote speak on this matter. And by the way there have been protests against illegals by both groups and citizens for quite some time but of course those people and groups get called racists. Arizona has it right. Enforce the laws. And until the laws actually gets put into place quit assuming the law will be unfairly enforced. Give it a change to work.
 
Just out of curiosity, how does your example of a blood thirsty regime in Cuba relate to Arizona's law?

I must have missed the part in that law where people are shot in the middle of the night.

It doesn't relate to Arizona's law. Where'd you get the silly idea that what I was doing was making a comparison of the laws? :confused:
 
It should be that Arizona can take action and the Feds cannot. Just as there is no clause that limits State authority, there is no clause that grants federal authority.

According to the 10th, that means it is reserved to the States.


Thread derail!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I'll help out. :mrgreen:

The Supreme Court has ruled that the Congressional power to regulate naturalization, in Article 1, Section 8, includes the power to regulate immigration (see, for example, Hampton v. Mow Sun Wong, 426 U.S. 88 [1976]). It would not make sense to allow Congress to pass laws to determine how an immigrant becomes a naturalized resident if the Congress cannot determine how that immigrant can come into the country in the first place.

Things That Are Not In the U.S. Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

That's the justification, but I'm more with you.

Problem is, would Oregon have the right then to transport an Illegal Alien from Mexico through California and send that Alien back across the border? (this is assumeing Oregon passed a law like Arizona)
 
If you actually think a landscape company with a couple illegal aliens cutting grass is "promoting" illegal immigration, then I can't help you. You are so far into left field that I have no interest in further discussions on the subject with you.

:2wave:

How about "encouraging Illegal Immigration"? I’d like to see every State pass draconian laws about businesses hiring Illegal Aliens….. Laws tough enough to put a business out of business if they knowingly do hire just 1.

There is no such thing as a “job Americans won’t do” There are jobs employers are getting away with offering substandard wages because of our Illegal Alien problem.
 
It doesn't relate to Arizona's law. Where'd you get the silly idea that what I was doing was making a comparison of the laws? :confused:

I don't know..... maybe because we are discussing Arizona's law and the people that are leaveing, and you compared Dav's family to the topic? Could be wrong.

Wait. Your family came here from Cuba, right?

Think about how your comments relate to their deeply personal decision to GTFO of Cuba. If not their own decision, then think of millions of other Cubans who made the deeply personal decision to leave their homeland for political and ideological reasons after Castro took power.
 
You could stop buying from those companies. You can put pressure on the politicians. You can vote for people more willing to crack down. We're not yet completely out of the loop; we still have some influence on the system. Both politically and economically. You don't need to wait for the government to do something.

The problem is all the politicians who claim they will crack down. But once they get into Washington, they do nothing.

Its all about getting elected.
 
I don't know..... maybe because we are discussing Arizona's law and the people that are leaveing, and you compared Dav's family to the topic? Could be wrong.

Yes, but the comparison I wasn't making wasn't about the laws, it was about the act of making personal decisions over political and ideological reasons. I think it's justified to make personal decisions for these reasons, dav thinks it isn't justified and that it's a sign of mental illness, apparently.



I'm ideologically opposed to those instances of "judicial activism" and broad interpretations of the constitution, so those rulings particularly irk me. I also wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that it doesn't make sense to have control over naturalization but not over immigration. They are two different things altogether. while one cannot become naturalized without being an immigrant, one can be an immigrant without being naturalized.


That's the justification, but I'm more with you.

Good to hear it! :) Even though you and I are probably on total opposite ends of the spectrum on the specific laws we'd like to see implemented in our states, we are ideologically on the same page.

Problem is, would Oregon have the right then to transport an Illegal Alien from Mexico through California and send that Alien back across the border? (this is assumeing Oregon passed a law like Arizona)

I'd say that if California didn't let Oregon pass through, then Oregon should simply drop them off on the California side of the Oregon border. :mrgreen:
 
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His comment wasn't political. It was that "Cuba went wrong when people became unable to separate politics from their personal lives." This is a belief that intermingling politics and perosnal lives is dangerous and will always lead to problems.

Thus, it would be a stupid decision to go to a country that has had this same exact problem since it's very inception.

I can guaruntee you that the U.S. does not have the problems he was describing Cuba to have; he has experienced both, and could tell you that. In fact, much of the reason that he claims that the U.S. is so great is that it is the country where (according to him) politics possibly matters the least on a personal level.

Now, when I say politics, I'm not talking about POLICIES. Obviously those are going to affect everyone, and nothing can really stop that from being true. And I'm also not talking about things like getting involved in a political cause or campaign (or... internet forum), which I guess would make politics, in a way, part of someone's "personal" life. But what I'm talking about is decisions which have nothing to do with politics, but are made to anyways, without any real positive results, because of some high ideals that are placed above things that actually matter. For example, there is little that makes me see red more than close friendships splitting up just because of differences in political views, which happens all too often. If a Republican moved away from Vermont simply because it was too much of a "blue state", without regard for the actual conditions of the state, it would be indicative of the same thing - imagining one's own political stances to be so important, everything is seen through the scope of politics... and judgements are made on people, and places, based on what their political views are. On this forum, there's a word we often use for people who feel the need to politicize absolutely everything: "partisan" (even though that's not what the word means IRL). The type of poster who complains about the evul librals/conservatives, having apparently never met one in real life. Imagine that taken to an extreme, and imagine an entire country full of that extreme. That's what I'm saying my dad was saying about Cuba - it became like a country filled with forum trolls, except more extreme, and with IRL consequences. Every aspect of life became about the Revolution. In fact, that our own Revolution changed so little (as you pointed out earlier) is probably indicative of exactly what I'm talking about, that we're almost Cuba's opposite when it comes to this stuff.

He should isntead have gone to a country that was founded by people who do not allow politics and ideology to enter into their personal lives, as this would prevent the same thing form occuring in his new homeland.

It's not his ideology that should have guided his decision, his practical application of a belief he had should have guided his decision.

If it's about a country's founders rather than the conditions of the country where he would live itself, then there's no pratical application about it that isn't entirely guided by ideology. And it makes no sense, since that ideology is that ideology shouldn't get in the way of personal decisions in the first place.
Now, if you were saying that the same thing happens here as in Cuba in the modern day, that's a different matter. And it's just not true.

I'm describing reality. Your position is in defiance of reality. You formulate your political positions and ideology based on personal preferences. They are intertwined from the very start. Your father would be searching for a very, very long time for the mythical land where politics and perosnal lives are not intertwined. There is no other possibility.

Again, I think you don't get what I'm talking about when I say "personal lives". See above.
And he's found that "mythical land", it's called the United States. Or so he says.
 
How about "encouraging Illegal Immigration"? I’d like to see every State pass draconian laws about businesses hiring Illegal Aliens….. Laws tough enough to put a business out of business if they knowingly do hire just 1.

There is no such thing as a “job Americans won’t do” There are jobs employers are getting away with offering substandard wages because of our Illegal Alien problem.

As I said above, I agree completely that employers should be the focus.
 
To be clear, I am not calling for neglecting border security, I just firmly believe that we can never really stop the flow of terrorists. They will adapt and find a way. We can however do better than we have.

I think the bigger solution is to reduce the success of those who come here illegally by going after people who employ or shelter illegals.

No, I doubt we could ever stop it, but we're a long way from looking like we're stopping it. They're coming in here like a hot knife through butter.
 
racist...no reason to argue with some irrational moron

AHAH the irony.

Good? The law clearly states your legal status can be checked while investigating a different crime. So if you already did something wrong theres no reason why you shouldn't be willing to prove you're a citizen. Too bad liberals have hyped this up soo much that they are spreading irrational fear in the hispanic community. All in defense of people committing crimes.
 
Now, when I say politics, I'm not talking about POLICIES.

Ah, you are correct in saying that I didn't get what you meant by personal decisions. But that's in no small part due to the fact that you brought it up as a rebuttal to a comment about a decision to move out of a state over that state's policies.

I think people are missing a major factor in this situation. Visiting relatives who come here legally to visit could be at risk for incarceration, at least temporarily, since the would not be able to provide proof of legal residency. They could have this happen for something as simple as a traffic violation (it's legal to drive on a foreign DL while visiting the US).

And I know the response will be that they should carry their passport with them at all times (since that is th eonly way they can prove they are hear legally), but that is not a good idea at all. While you do need identiifcation of some sort, your passport should be kept secure. You can get home without your ID, but not without your passport. And it's a bitch to get a replacement passport while travelling abroad.

I would not want to risk that my family members from abroad would undergo such treatement while they come to visit me (which happens very often).I would choos eto move away from Illinois if they passed such laws, and I'm a born-citizen.
 
Ah, you are correct in saying that I didn't get what you meant by personal decisions. But that's in no small part due to the fact that you brought it up as a rebuttal to a comment about a decision to move out of a state over that state's policies.

Yeah, but you were talking about them doing it to "take a stand", rather than because it affected them in any way. Now, if it's a situation like what you described in the rest of your post, then I'd perfectly understand why they'd want to leave.
 
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Yeah, but you were talking about them doing it to "take a stand", rather than because it affected them in any way. Now, if it's a situation like what you described in the rest of your post, then I'd perfectly understand why they'd want to leave.

I consider moving for the reasons I mentioned taking a stand against the policy.
 
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