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Thread: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

  1. #161
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    I guess it's all part of the free market system. If the consumer doesn't like it, they can go somewhere else. And in this case, if Arizona is concerned about losing its Hispanic population, they'll try something different.
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniRocky View Post
    I guess it's all part of the free market system. If the consumer doesn't like it, they can go somewhere else. And in this case, if Arizona is concerned about losing its Hispanic population, they'll try something different.
    Agreed. And if they feel that they aren't losing much, they won't change anything. It's ultimately the decision of the people of Arizona.
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be fair, and this goes to me too, towards the federal government...

    Sadly there's not been an administration in some time that actually took border enforcement seriously. We all got hoodwinkinked into thinking it was going to happen with the promises of it occuring after amnesty in the 80's and it didn't, and its not going to this time either if we give amnesty first. But because the Federal Government is so derelict in enforcing their own laws that are on the books and so wantonly ignoring criminals, what we have are federal immigration laws that are essentially on par with "Blue Laws" that you see in states and cities now.

    You know the type:
    • its illegal for a couple to hold hands on a sunday
    • its forbidden for a man with a moustache to kiss a woman
    • Its prohibited to eat onions between the hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. while out riding a horse
    • its forbidden from buying drinks for more than three people other than himself at any one period during the day
    • It is illegal for any member of the Nevada Legislature to conduct official business wearing a penis costume while the legislature is in session.


    Those are all from the books of towns in Nevada, or its actual state law.

    That's essentially what most Federal immigration laws have became; they've become the equivilent of buying too many women drinks in a day or having a moustache while making out. They're laws that are ignored and found silly and devoid of any real use in either enforcing nor taking the time to remove them. They've become jokes, not just to us that want them enforced but to the people that are enforcing them.

    I doubt any citizens going to be bad that there's a law banning kissing if you have a mustache, however if they started enforcing it then that probably changes the situation.

    So while I think the cries of "unconstitutional" are bull**** if you're going to scream that at the states when its clear federal law allows it, but I do think its not too unreasonable to be more worried about Arizona then the rest of the country because for the rest of the country illegal immigration is essentially a blue law.
    Zyphlin, I agree that the federal government has not done well on it's job to stop immigration, but I do not think the border is the solution, at least not all of it. It is simply not possible or feasible to really stop people sneaking into this country. The resources it would take are insane. A wall won't do it. Increased border patrols won't do it. Our military is stretched thins as is, so having them patrol is not a solution. What needs to be done is reduce the reason why people sneak to this country, and that means going after those who employ illegals.

    Any one who knows me knows I am staunchly anti-illegal. To me, it's a clear cut issue. If you are here illegally, you are a criminal. End of story. But focusing on the people coming into the country seems to me to be akin to going after drug users in the war on drugs. The better solution is to go after the ability of illegals to succeed here. If they cannot get jobs, cannot get benefits, then they have no reason to come here.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #164
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It should be that Arizona can take action and the Feds cannot. Just as there is no clause that limits State authority, there is no clause that grants federal authority.

    According to the 10th, that means it is reserved to the States.
    I agree for the most part, however the Arizona governor has been requesting action from the Fed which does then give them authority to act.
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Zyphlin, I agree that the federal government has not done well on it's job to stop immigration, but I do not think the border is the solution, at least not all of it. It is simply not possible or feasible to really stop people sneaking into this country. The resources it would take are insane. A wall won't do it. Increased border patrols won't do it. Our military is stretched thins as is, so having them patrol is not a solution. What needs to be done is reduce the reason why people sneak to this country, and that means going after those who employ illegals.
    First, I disagree with you in regards to the resources taking too much to properly protect the border. I think its definitely do able, both logistically, financially, and man power wise. A workable border protection set up could likely be set up for a fraction of what we just threw out in TARP 1, TARP 2, or what we paid off multiple various businesses like GM and the banks. I'm not willing to say no to something that in part aids in one of the primary purposes of the federal government, protection of our sovereign land, because of "cost" when we just had TRILLIONS spent on things that were in many ways questionable at best in regards to being legitimate originally intended federal government endevours. The long term cost for it, even with upkeep of employement, would likely be largely less burdensome then the vast amount of entitlement programs we have and are adding.

    Second, I also disagree with the notion that it would not be affective. Decentivizing why people come here only can go so far without fundamentally shifting the incentive for ANYONE to come or remain here. No matter how much we hammer that angle down there's still likely going to be reasons why it's still more advantageous to come rather than not to come. Either method, alone, will fail to address the issue efficiently and fully. However, thankfully, despite how its presented by many people it is NOT an "either or" type of situation where we either protect our most breached border OR deal with the reasons why they come. Indeed, the government can and SHOULD do both to provide the largest chance of success.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Why should I do your work for you? If you're so bothered by it, do it yourself. Quit being lazy, that's how we got to this point now. People wanting others to do their work for them so they don't have to get off the couch or think about a problem. Illegal immigrants work all sorts of jobs from agriculture to construction to slaughter houses. If you don't like illegal immigration, you should look at what you're supporting. But don't sit there and demand that others do your work. It's your damned duty, and you need to do it.

    No wonder things are seemingly falling apart in this country. We've gotten far too lazy.
    I'll take your post as your admission that "I threw that out there hoping no one would call me on it".

    You're dismissed.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    First, I disagree with you in regards to the resources taking too much to properly protect the border. I think its definitely do able, both logistically, financially, and man power wise. A workable border protection set up could likely be set up for a fraction of what we just threw out in TARP 1, TARP 2, or what we paid off multiple various businesses like GM and the banks. I'm not willing to say no to something that in part aids in one of the primary purposes of the federal government, protection of our sovereign land, because of "cost" when we just had TRILLIONS spent on things that were in many ways questionable at best in regards to being legitimate originally intended federal government endevours. The long term cost for it, even with upkeep of employement, would likely be largely less burdensome then the vast amount of entitlement programs we have and are adding.

    Second, I also disagree with the notion that it would not be affective. Decentivizing why people come here only can go so far without fundamentally shifting the incentive for ANYONE to come or remain here. No matter how much we hammer that angle down there's still likely going to be reasons why it's still more advantageous to come rather than not to come. Either method, alone, will fail to address the issue efficiently and fully. However, thankfully, despite how its presented by many people it is NOT an "either or" type of situation where we either protect our most breached border OR deal with the reasons why they come. Indeed, the government can and SHOULD do both to provide the largest chance of success.
    To be clear, I am not calling for neglecting border security, I just firmly believe that we can never really stop the flow of terrorists. They will adapt and find a way. We can however do better than we have.

    I think the bigger solution is to reduce the success of those who come here illegally by going after people who employ or shelter illegals.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    To be clear, I am not calling for neglecting border security, I just firmly believe that we can never really stop the flow of terrorists. They will adapt and find a way. We can however do better than we have.

    I think the bigger solution is to reduce the success of those who come here illegally by going after people who employ or shelter illegals.
    I agree completely; however, neither Republicans or Democrats would dare make any meaningful effort to go after businesses that hire illegal aliens. Sure, they will make a few measely laws and give big speeches claiming they have done all they can to correct the problem, but in the end will do all they can to protect businesses.

    Both know where the butter on their bread comes from.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I'll take your post as your admission that "I threw that out there hoping no one would call me on it".

    You're dismissed.
    No, not at all. There have been raids on factories and industries for using illegal immigrants. Greely had a huge raid on the meat packing plant there. Many seasonal agricultural products such as strawberries are harvested with illegal alien labor. Lawn care services the country over hire many illegal immigrants because they can pay them poorly. A lot of construction is done with illegal immigrant labor. I mean, I figured this stuff was common knowledge at this point. But instead we have you trying to deflect away not only the fact that this takes place regularly, but your duty to understand and know about it. It's piss poor. People want to bitch about the illegal immigrant problem, but it's a problem through our consumerism. If we changed that, we could affect the system. But it takes getting up off your fat, lazy ass to do something about it. An act not many seem to want to do. In fact, you yourself are a prime example. You wanted the answer handed to you and when you didn't get it, you just ignored the problem. So thanks for contributing to the problem and working hard to be intellectually dishonest and lazy about it. But it's not doing anything to help out where we are at or to drive us to better circumstances. For that, you need educated consumerism. And no, the answer will not be given to you. You're going to actually have to do some work. Sorry, but the system doesn't stay controlled and regulated through no effort. You have to expend energy to keep the Republic going. So do it, or shut up. Because if you're just going to be part of the problem, no one wants to hear you bitching about the problem.
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I agree completely; however, neither Republicans or Democrats would dare make any meaningful effort to go after businesses that hire illegal aliens. Sure, they will make a few measely laws and give big speeches claiming they have done all they can to correct the problem, but in the end will do all they can to protect businesses.

    Both know where the butter on their bread comes from.
    Which is sad. I have come to the conclusion that we never will do anything serious about illegal immigration simply because politicians are too cowardly to attempt it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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