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Thread: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

  1. #91
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    In fact there was already. The legal immigrants who might be leaving were trivialized in order to exalt the fact that illegals may be leaving. And there is nothing to suggest that everyone who left was illegal. That's an assumption which disgraceful and dishonest in trying to but forward. The fact is that those who support police action against the individual have to prove their case. You need to show that you've predominately affected illegals without having or minimally affecting the legal sector. In the end, there is not enough hard fact presented in the article to go one way or the other. The best assumption is that there is a mix though we cannot speak to the actual statistical breakdown.
    The article presents evidence that illegal immigrants have left. It provides no evidence at all that legal immigrants have left. Logic thus dictates that while illegal immigrants have left, absent evidence, it should be assumed that legal immigrants have not.

    In the end, this is a law which makes it hostile towards certain sects of society in such a way as it would cause them to flee. We don't know how many were legal and how many were illegal; but you can't dismiss the impact you may have on legal citizens due to the effect you could have on illegals.
    You think it will have an impact on legal immigrants. Fine, but many people, including myself, disagree. These people are the ones cheering the law. Why would they cheer for the effects it has on both legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants, if they don't think it would have any effect on legal immigrants in the first place?

    And you didn't show me where any conservative cheered running Hispanics out of town without regard to legality.

  2. #92
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    While liberals may endorse the use of large, draconian measures depending on topic; libertarians do not. So fail right there.
    Fail right where? I never said that they did. Read my post again.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    The article presents evidence that illegal immigrants have left. It provides no evidence at all that legal immigrants have left. Logic thus dictates that while illegal immigrants have left, absent evidence, it should be assumed that legal immigrants have not.
    No, it gives evidence that hispanics are leaving AZ. It does not give numbers on the statistical break down of those fleeing. So you have no real way of knowing how many were illegal and how many were legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    You think it will have an impact on legal immigrants. Fine, but many people, including myself, disagree.
    That's fine. But since you're the one endorsing the law and use of government force, you must prove that you are not greatly affecting legal citizens who are here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    And you didn't show me where any conservative cheered running Hispanics out of town without regard to legality.
    It's on the first page. One responded that the did not care if legal immigrants were leaving so long as illegal immigrants were leaving as well.
    Last edited by Ikari; 06-09-10 at 06:32 PM.
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    What do you think would happen if this law was passed on a federal level?
    The ILLEGAL ALIENS would go back to their point of origins.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, it gives evidence that hispanics are leaving AZ. It does not give numbers on the statistical break down of those fleeing. So you have no real way of knowing how many were illegal and how many were legal.
    Those leaving seem to be either paranoid, ignorant of the law, or both.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Those leaving seem to be either paranoid, ignorant of the law, or both.
    Perchance. And perchance their paranoia is warranted as well. Is it ok to make hostile laws which will affect certain sects of a population and catch up within it a significant number of legal citizens based solely on the excuse that it will get criminals as well? I don't think so. In fact, I find that to be a very dangerous line of thought.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, it gives evidence that hispanics are leaving AZ. It does not give numbers on the statistical break down of those fleeing. So you have no real way of knowing how many were illegal and how many were legal.
    It does give evidence that Hispanics are fleeing in droves. Absense any evidence either way, that would mean that logically, no assumption should be made about how many of these are legal vs. illegal. But there is evidence one way, and the article presents evidence that illegal immigrants are leaving in droves. It presents no evidence of any legal immigrants leaving at all. Again, logically, if there is no evidence for it, it should be assumed that it is not happening. Regarding that particular use of logic, Hispanics leaving are an entirely different issue.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Those leaving seem to be either paranoid, ignorant of the law, or both.
    Except there is nothing to suggest that a single legal immigrant has left because of this law.

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It does give evidence that Hispanics are fleeing in droves. Absense any evidence either way, that would mean that logically, no assumption should be made about how many of these are legal vs. illegal. But there is evidence one way, and the article presents evidence that illegal immigrants are leaving in droves. It presents no evidence of any legal immigrants leaving at all. Again, logically, if there is no evidence for it, it should be assumed that it is not happening. Regarding that particular use of logic, Hispanics leaving are an entirely different issue.
    No, logically you cannot comment on the demographics because you do not have the data to support a claim. All you can really say at this point is that there are a large number of hispanics leaving; be they legal or illegal. You have no proper breakdown of statistics to confidently say anything beyond that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Except there is nothing to suggest that a single legal immigrant has left because of this law.
    There's nothing to suggest that it's 100% illegal immigrants either.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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