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Thread: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

  1. #131
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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Trains by and large pull more weight per gallon of fuel than a truck wish it could.
    You can load up to 4x as much goods inside a train car vs. a truck.

    Don't get mad at me though, Buffet is the one pushing that.
    Trucking is going to head in the direction of mostly short haul sooner or later.
    It takes just as much energy for a train to pull a ton of freight as it does a truck to perform the same amount of work. Don't be tricked by the CSX commercials.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I agree we will have do to this sooner or later but not all at once nor should we tax the public as to persuade them. This will be a gradual thing and we have plenty of oil here in the U.S. to give us plenty of time to do so. That said we shouldn't punish the consumer by taxing them to death.
    What we call gradual may be the problem. We've hardly been quick on this. And the government could do more to promote it and lower costs of promising efforts (like replacing existing fleet with hybrids or electric vehicles or whatever alternative is ready). Even a gradual move has to begin and progress.

    As for taxes? I wouldn't punish. But if something costs us more to maintain (think gulf clean up) and BP folds, and the government has to pay to clean it up, wouldn't users of the product be next in line to pay? If not, who should pay?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    alternate sources have - as of yet - proven too expensive to be a ready replacement for oil. You would have to jack the price of gasoline up enough to crash the economy to get enough people to switch. in 2008, we didn't see the beginnigs of actual change in behavior until gas hit about $4 a gallon; it's exceedingly inelastic because (as American points out), much of our consumption is tied to activities that we are not willing to give up - driving to work, going to pick up groceries, etc. and you would need to jack up prices significantly beyond that $4 a gallon in order to start seeing a mass-rapid switch to alternate energies.

    'alternate energies' is not a magic wand that one can wave and pass into law in order to hook each of our electronic car batteries to a windfarm.
    The oil companies are against alternative energy sources. They even buy up patents of alternative energy sources to keep them off the market, imo.

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What we call gradual may be the problem. We've hardly been quick on this. And the government could do more to promote it and lower costs of promising efforts (like replacing existing fleet with hybrids or electric vehicles or whatever alternative is ready). Even a gradual move has to begin and progress.

    As for taxes? I wouldn't punish. But if something costs us more to maintain (think gulf clean up) and BP folds, and the government has to pay to clean it up, [b]wouldn't users of the product be next in line to pay?[b/
    That's purdy much every person in the country. There isn't anyone who doesn't who their life to the use of petroleum.


    If not, who should pay?
    Everyone, from every state that has received oil and gas royalties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #135
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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    The oil companies are against alternative energy sources. They even buy up patents of alternative energy sources to keep them off the market, imo.
    You have proof of all this, right?

    I am still trying to see why the oil companies would supress new energy technology. It doesn't make the first bit of sense. As I've said before, oil is the only show in town, that's why oil companies go after it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I'm actually fine with an additional 3 cents on my gas if it would prevent this sort of thing.



    Also, Maybe we can shut down the MMS since its irrellevant to this mess and funnel that money into the 1994 plan instead. that may make it 2 cents more expensive...


    I am not for some massive tax, just enough to fund cleanup and mitigation. It's going to cost us a lot more in the long run to clean this mess up as it is now.


    That's my point.
    How would the oil companies learn their lesson if the consumer is the one paying for that lesson?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    How would the oil companies learn their lesson if the consumer is the one paying for that lesson?
    BP is losing billions everyday and will keep losing money, even after the well is capped. How are they not, "learning their lesson"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You have proof of all this, right?

    I am still trying to see why the oil companies would supress new energy technology. It doesn't make the first bit of sense. As I've said before, oil is the only show in town, that's why oil companies go after it.
    No, I have not. That's why I said, "imo".

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You have proof of all this, right?

    I am still trying to see why the oil companies would supress new energy technology. It doesn't make the first bit of sense. As I've said before, oil is the only show in town, that's why oil companies go after it.
    Proof: Oil, Profits, and the Question of Alternative Energy | Humanist | Find Articles at BNET From the article: By the late 1970s, oil companies had bought out many of the patents for photovoltaic cells, and corporate giants like Atlantic Richfield, Amoco, Exxon, and Mobil took control of solar power companies. This trend would lead Alfred Dougherty, former director of the Federal Trade Commission's bureau of competition to warn, "If the oil companies control substantial amounts of substitute fuels ... they may slow the pace of production of alternative fuels in order to protect the value of their oil and gas reserves." Edwin Rothschild, a spokesperson for the Citizen Energy Labor Coalition, was concerned that the big oil companies "see solar power as a competing source of energy, and they want to control it and slow it down." However, ownership of solar technology by big oil was only the first step in the methodical dismantling of the alternative energy renaissance."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Kil...lectric_Car%3F
    Last edited by LiberalAvenger; 06-13-10 at 11:49 AM.

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    Re: Democrats propose further tax hike on offshore oil

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Proof: Oil, Profits, and the Question of Alternative Energy | Humanist | Find Articles at BNET From the article: By the late 1970s, oil companies had bought out many of the patents for photovoltaic cells, and corporate giants like Atlantic Richfield, Amoco, Exxon, and Mobil took control of solar power companies. This trend would lead Alfred Dougherty, former director of the Federal Trade Commission's bureau of competition to warn, "If the oil companies control substantial amounts of substitute fuels ... they may slow the pace of production of alternative fuels in order to protect the value of their oil and gas reserves." Edwin Rothschild, a spokesperson for the Citizen Energy Labor Coalition, was concerned that the big oil companies "see solar power as a competing source of energy, and they want to control it and slow it down." However, ownership of solar technology by big oil was only the first step in the methodical dismantling of the alternative energy renaissance."

    So, I guess it's not you opinion, anymore?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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