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Thread: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Well, considering this is a man made disaster for which BP is solely responsible, i'm not surprised. The Katrina comparisons kind of fall flat, a natural disaster has different implications then one made by a global corporation.

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by somepeoplesay View Post
    Well, considering this is a man made disaster for which BP is solely responsible, i'm not surprised. The Katrina comparisons kind of fall flat, a natural disaster has different implications then one made by a global corporation.


    I guess you are not aware that by law, the coast guard and the EPA are also responsible for cleanup.
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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by somepeoplesay View Post
    Well, considering this is a man made disaster for which BP is solely responsible, i'm not surprised. The Katrina comparisons kind of fall flat, a natural disaster has different implications then one made by a global corporation.
    The implications are the same... respond accordingly. People are no more blaming Obama for creating the oil spill than they blamed Bush for creating a hurricane.

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Um....in regards to the "partisan hackiness" and the attempted hypocrisy cries.

    Can someone link me to an outcry of Conservatives during Katrina that said the Federal Government SHOULDN'T do anything? I believe a large part of the Conservative complaint at that time was due to disproportional amount of blame the Federal Government was getting for their lacking response when compared to the criticism found for the individual state responses. This is doubly true in regards to the lack of proper city response as well in regards to New Orleans, as the Federal Government should be focusing more on the overall scale then simply having to focus on a singular city.

    I honestly can't remember many if any conservatives on this site or in the media that were saying that the federal government should NOT do anything or should have no place in it. Which is the only way your rather mind boggling hypocrisy argument would actually make sense.

    Its fully justifiable within conservative ideology to give aid and attempt to fix problems caused by major disasters, be it man made or natural, that can have an impact on either the safety of the Nation or on Interstate Commerce. No, if your local town of 5,000 people floods and 6 houses are destroyed its not out of the realm of possability to believe that many conservaties may not feel that the Federal Government should sweep into your town offering millions of dollars of aide. However if multiple states are being affected by a wide scale disaster that can affect a large amount of commercial industries that will have a siginificant affect on the economy of a number of states and thus the United States while making ports less accessible that is completely justifiable for Federal involvement.

    So Conservative Ideology has no real big issue with a Government stepping in to help with a Hurricane or a Tornado or an Earth Quake, why then should it not be for a man made disaster? Now, stepping in to help does not mean excusing the private industry from their responsability or culpability. However since it is something the govenrment should be doing they shouldn't simply sit back on their haunches and wait at the expense of the countries potential economic or tangible safety. For example, lets say instead of an oil spill there was a major nuclear reactor meltdown seemingly because the company used a cheaper part that ended up being faulty. Would you suggest then as well that the Federal Government should not do anything or take its time waiting on the company owning the nuclear facilitity to do something about "Their mess" or should it act in the name of safety for the country?

    See the very essense of your theory that you use as the baseline for your insult to conservatives in attempting to label them hypocrites is based on hyperbolic stereotypes equating Conservatives with Anarchists and a seemingly devoid memory of history in believing that Conservatives have been against the federal government playing a role in any major disaster before.

    Conservatives are not anarchists. Limited government is not no government.
    As to being against the federal government having any role in the aftermath of a major disaster, well, I'm eagerly awaiting links for proof.

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    The point to my opening remarks in my initial post herein (post #3) was simply to illustrate the hypocrisy, that the very same people who cry "government, stay out of private affairs" are the same people who all but demand government involvement in situations like this. The fact of the matter is yes, government does have a role to play in such disastererous situations whether naturally occuring (i.e., tornado, flood, hurricane, earth quake, volcanic eruption over populated area, etc.) or man-made such as this oil spill. The issue here is how much of a role should they play?

    If you look at the NCP where local, state and regional governments responsibilities are, you'll see that they (as well as the private business entity according to their SPCC on file w/the federal government) are to act as "first responders" to such crisis and that the federal government steps in only when it has been determined that local, state and regional governments and/or private enterprise can't handle the situation.

    TITLE 40--PROTECTION OF ENVIRONMENT

    CHAPTER I--ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED)

    PART 109_CRITERIA FOR STATE, LOCAL AND REGIONAL OIL REMOVAL CONTINGENCY

    PLANS--Table of Contents

    Sec. 109.5 Development and implementation criteria for State, local and regional oil removal contingency plans. Criteria for the development and implementation of State, local and regional oil removal contingency plans are:

    (a) Definition of the authorities, responsibilities and duties of all persons, organizations or agencies which are to be involved or could be involved in planning or directing oil removal operations, with particular care to clearly define the authorities, responsibilities and duties of State and local governmental agencies to avoid unnecessary duplication of contingency planning activities and to minimize the potential for conflict and confusion that could be generated in an emergency situation as a result of such duplications.

    (b) Establishment of notification procedures for the purpose of early detection and timely notification of an oil discharge including:

    (1) The identification of critical water use areas to facilitate the reporting of and response to oil discharges.

    (2) A current list of names, telephone numbers and addresses of the responsible persons and alternates on call to receive notification of an oil discharge as well as the names, telephone numbers and addresses of the organizations and agencies to be notified when an oil discharge is discovered.

    (3) Provisions for access to a reliable communications system for timely notification of an oil discharge and incorporation in the communications system of the capability for interconnection with the communications systems established under related oil removal contingency plans, particularly State and National plans.

    (4) An established, prearranged procedure for requesting assistance during a major disaster or when the situation exceeds the response capability of the State, local or regional authority.

    (c) Provisions to assure that full resource capability is known and can be committed during an oil discharge situation including:

    (1) The identification and inventory of applicable equipment, materials and supplies which are available locally and regionally.

    (2) An estimate of the equipment, materials and supplies which would be required to remove the maximum oil discharge to be anticipated.

    (3) Development of agreements and arrangements in advance of an oil discharge for the acquisition of equipment, materials and supplies to be used in responding to such a discharge.
    So, Rev, you are correct...from a certain point of view. The federal government is responsible for this cleanup effort, but only after it has been determined that neither the private entity nor the local, state or regional governments can handle it. Furthermore, nowhere have I read in the NCP where the federal government is responsible for ensuring that equipment is on-hand for handling the capping or cleanup efforts of a major oil spill of this magnitude. However, it's clear that the oil drilling company and the state are suppose to have all necessary equipment on hand to handle such a catatrophy. It could easily be argued that BP and perhaps even the state of LA wasn't prepared for this. Still, all entities - private, state and federal governments - have a role to play here. But for what it's worth, I don't blame the government in how they've handled this situation to date according to the law as outlined above. I blame BP!!!
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-09-10 at 01:51 PM.

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The point to my opening remarks in my initial post herein (post #3) was simply to illustrate the hypocrisy, that the very same people who cry "government, stay out of private affairs" are the same people who all but demand government involvement in situations like this. The fact of the matter is yes, government does have a role to play in such disastererous situations whether naturally occuring (i.e., tornado, flood, hurricane, earth quake, volcanic eruption over populated area, etc.) or man-made such as this oil spill. This issue here is how much of a role should they play?
    how is that hypocritical? I don't get applying federal law to a cleanup and not wanting the government to take over my healthcare is hypocritical. this is far to black and white thinking.




    If you look at the NCP where local, state and regional governments responsibilities are, you'll see that local, state and regional governments (as well as the private business entity according to their SPCC on file w/the federal government) are to act as "first responders" to such crisis and that the federal government steps in only when it has been determined that local, state and regional governments and/or private enterprise can't handle the situation.

    and they were. however the FEDGOV was ill prepared to respond when they failed.





    So, Rev, you are correct...from a certain point of view. The federal government is responsible for this cleanup effort, but only after it has been determined that neither the private entity nor the local, state or regional governments can handle it. Furthermore, nowhere have I read in the NCP where the federal government is responsible for ensuring that equipment is on-hand for handling the capping or cleanup efforts of a major oil spill of this magnitude. However, it's clear that the oil drilling company and the state are suppose to have all necessary equipment on hand to handle such a catatrophy. It could easily be argued that BP and perhaps even the state of LA wasn't prepared for this. Still, all entities - private, state and federal governments - have a role to play here. But for what it's worth, I don't blame the government in how they've handled this situation to date according to the law as outlined above. I blame BP!!!

    I blame both. The failure of Government here is the lack of preparedness as indicated by law in the 1994 plan. Do you argue it was logistically ready?
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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    The truth is starting to come out....

    Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), top Republican on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform released documents Thursday night showing the Coast Guard recorded on April 21 -- less than 24 hours after the Deepwater Horizon explosion -- the magnitude of the oil leak disaster in the Gulf of Mexico.

    “Potential environmental threat is 700,000 gallons of diesel on board the Deepwater Horizon and estimated potential of 8,000 barrels per day of crude oil, if the well were to completely blowout,” the Coast Guard reported in a log of events from the immediate aftermath of the April 20 explosion -- shedding new information on the first days of the disaster.

    “These documents raise new questions about whether the White House was slow to respond to an incident that was quickly recognized by the Coast Guard as a potentially catastrophic threat to the environment,” Issa said upon release of the documents. “It appears as if this administration would rather tell a half-truth if the full-truth doesn’t fit the story they want to tell.”

    Coast Guard Logs Show White House Knew Extent of Oil Spill within 24 Hours - HUMAN EVENTS
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    BULL****.

    It describes your hyper-partisan obsession with Katrina vs Oil Spill to a friggin' T.

    You scream and cry about BIG GOVERNMENT getting out of way of BIG BUSINESSES...

    However, since the oil spill you've been laughingly hypocritical.... Where's my nanny-state?!! Where's my President?!!

    But it's not about Katrina or the oil spill, it's just about you posting another attack on Obama, finding fault with your President not matter how hypocritical you look... If only the Feds were as transparent as you are.

    OV described you to a T. -- So, the FAIL (epic or otherwise) is all yours, buddy.
    In a way it is sad to read the excuses coming out of the " I love Obama " crowd.

    The above I find among the most intellectually dishonest talking points. People who advocate small government are not the same people who want NO government. Protecting the nation is something that small government people consider to be one of the things it should do.

    Thus protecting our seabeds, beaches etc and doing all possible to stop it from hitting land should be a fundemental chore of government in my view.

    What it should not do for example is delay for weeks the state's ability to build defenses that is an abuse of an out of control Federal government.

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Crunch,

    All that shows is that the CG/White House were still brainstorming trying to determine the size and scope of exactly what they were dealing with. It falls directly inline with RADM Landrey's initial comments while assessment of the situation from day-1. Everyone at the federal level including BP believed that residual oil was leaking from the oil rig and not the well-head. It wasn't until day-3 when they got ROVs down to the seabed did anyone know for sure that the problem was worse than expected. Just look at Timeline A.

    Washunut,

    I can't speak to the reason for the delay except to say if all entities where truly following their emergency oil spill contingency plans - BP and each affected state particularly LA - and being honest about what was happening alot of the initial response lag time could have been avoided.

    Per the EPA NCP, the federal government is suppose to have this superfund available just for oil spill containment, recovery and cleanup. I'm sure Gov. Jindal requisitioned for some of those funds to erect berms along LA's coastline and/or inlets. My question, however, would be why didn't the state already have their own superfund available? Did they use it up responding to Katrina? If so, it's certainly justifiable that they requested for more federal financial assistance. And even if they did have such funds available, it still would have been justifiable for them to ask for more. Nonetheless, my point here is if they had, in fact, incorporated their own superfund into their NCP chances are they could have begun erecting those berms alot faster and not relied on the government to disburse funds for them to do so - atleast not initially. Thus, the question I have based on what I've read of the NCP is why wasn't the state of LA rather than the federal government more prepared to tackle this problem? Where's the state's responsibility in their level of preparedness in this matter?

    Again, all entities have a role to play here. Let's not put the blame just on BP or the fed where preparedness is concerned.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-09-10 at 02:56 PM.

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    Re: Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The point to my opening remarks in my initial post herein (post #3) was simply to illustrate the hypocrisy, that the very same people who cry "government, stay out of private affairs" are the same people who all but demand government involvement in situations like this. The fact of the matter is yes, government does have a role to play in such disastererous situations whether naturally occuring (i.e., tornado, flood, hurricane, earth quake, volcanic eruption over populated area, etc.) or man-made such as this oil spill. The issue here is how much of a role should they play?

    If you look at the NCP where local, state and regional governments responsibilities are, you'll see that they (as well as the private business entity according to their SPCC on file w/the federal government) are to act as "first responders" to such crisis and that the federal government steps in only when it has been determined that local, state and regional governments and/or private enterprise can't handle the situation.



    So, Rev, you are correct...from a certain point of view. The federal government is responsible for this cleanup effort, but only after it has been determined that neither the private entity nor the local, state or regional governments can handle it. Furthermore, nowhere have I read in the NCP where the federal government is responsible for ensuring that equipment is on-hand for handling the capping or cleanup efforts of a major oil spill of this magnitude. However, it's clear that the oil drilling company and the state are suppose to have all necessary equipment on hand to handle such a catatrophy. It could easily be argued that BP and perhaps even the state of LA wasn't prepared for this. Still, all entities - private, state and federal governments - have a role to play here. But for what it's worth, I don't blame the government in how they've handled this situation to date according to the law as outlined above. I blame BP!!!
    You should read a little more of the laws you are quoting as proof the federal government has little responsibility for this cleanup:

    Title 40: Protection of Environment
    PART 109—CRITERIA FOR STATE, LOCAL AND REGIONAL OIL REMOVAL CONTINGENCY PLANS

    Browse Next
    § 109.1 Applicability.

    The criteria in this part are provided to assist State, local and regional agencies in the development of oil removal contingency plans for the inland navigable waters of the United States and all areas other than the high seas, coastal and contiguous zone waters, coastal and Great Lakes ports and harbors and such other areas as may be agreed upon between the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation in accordance with section 11(j)(1)(B) of the Federal Act, Executive Order No. 11548 dated July 20, 1970 (35 FR 11677) and §306.2 of the National Oil and Hazardous Materials Pollution Contingency Plan (35 FR 8511).
    Link

    This law doesn't even apply to coastal waters.

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