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Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/st...Fortunate Homosexual Man' - Stop The Presses!

I care more about Ricky Martin being gay than this. Turkey Israel relations will be heated, Erdogan will loose the elections now surrounding this new hype about a new CHP leadership, the Kemalists take over, 10-15 years from now Jews will be calling us brothers again, or better yet the military flips out and kills the fascists in power. Israeli-Turkey military relations remain the same. Government relations with Israel is bad but i dont think people here realize how seperate the army is from the government in Turkey, and how the Turkey's military still favours Israel strongly and is not with Erdogan on this one. The military has a good relationship with the IDF, wants to keep it that way cause the Jews make cool weapons, and still maintains one of the strictest punishments for anti-Semitism in the region.

Kaya, how do you know that he'll lose the elections?
I do believe that a great sum of Turks still desire a secular government, but it seems like his words and speeches are all supported, I have yet to hear a voice of anything that could resemble an opposition.
 
Turkey? Bitch all you want about Erdogan, there's still more damage to be done before we go down that path.

Buddy, you Turks are located in Europe. ;)
 
Kaya, how do you know that he'll lose the elections?
I do believe that a great sum of Turks still desire a secular government, but it seems like his words and speeches are all supported, I have yet to hear a voice of anything that could resemble an opposition.

The only opponents are based on radical religion, or military controlled government.
 
So is Israel, since they are in the Eurovision. :)

That just means we're part of the European broadcasting union, since the Arab nations won't let us into the Arabvision.
 
Kaya, how do you know that he'll lose the elections?
I do believe that a great sum of Turks still desire a secular government, but it seems like his words and speeches are all supported, I have yet to hear a voice of anything that could resemble an opposition.

I have faith. There is a huge media hype in Turkey regarding the CHP. Either the deep state will swing the ball in there favour or Erdogan will screw up somehow in the time between now and then - you know how these politicians are (i know im advocating very anti-democracy beliefs here. But desperate times calls for desperate measures. Im a very pro-western person, and at the moment im praying for a coup). My belief is things will get much worse between us, Erdogan will play the Israel card to victimize Turkey and therefore brainwash the population into believing Israel is hostile towards us and gain more votes. But with the increasing tensions between secularists and islamists with an added mix of expanding PKK attacks, with any luck, Turkey will plunge into a period of civil strife and give the military a causus belli to step in and restore some damn order. I want to see that ***** Obama start pressuring our government too. It's not in our interests to tell Jews to piss off. They contribute to our economy, we know they are good people because we mix with them so much, and Israeli's know Turks are good people too. How much longer can we stand this shame?
Iran is the biggest winner here, not the Arabs, not the Palestinians. The biggest loosers are Erdogan, Netanyahu, and the entire NATO cause for the advancement of human rights.
 
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Iran is the biggest winner here, not the Arabs, not the Palestinians. The biggest loosers are Erdogan, Netanyahu, and the entire NATO cause for the advancement of human rights.
Amazing, I've had exactly the same thought yesterday, when Ahmedinejad has told the press that he's very satisfied with the world's reaction to the interception.
I can't see how Turkey contributes from this, I can't see how Israel contributes from this, I can't see how the Palestinians contribute from this, I can only see one nation on this entire planet contributing from this and it's the same nation that the general assembly meeting that was meant to promote sanctions against it was postponed due to the flotilla interception.

Report: Flotilla delays Iran sanctions vote - Israel News, Ynetnews
 
Amazing, I've had exactly the same thought yesterday, when Ahmedinejad has told the press that he's very satisfied with the world's reaction to the interception.
I can't see how Turkey contributes from this, I can't see how Israel contributes from this, I can't see how the Palestinians contribute from this, I can only see one nation on this entire planet contributing from this and it's the same nation that the general assembly meeting that was meant to promote sanctions against it was postponed due to the flotilla interception.

Report: Flotilla delays Iran sanctions vote - Israel News, Ynetnews

you know why the UN did this? ( see link in sig) :roll:
 
Amazing, I've had exactly the same thought yesterday, when Ahmedinejad has told the press that he's very satisfied with the world's reaction to the interception.
I can't see how Turkey contributes from this, I can't see how Israel contributes from this, I can't see how the Palestinians contribute from this, I can only see one nation on this entire planet contributing from this and it's the same nation that the general assembly meeting that was meant to promote sanctions against it was postponed due to the flotilla interception.

Report: Flotilla delays Iran sanctions vote - Israel News, Ynetnews

You see. They are playing the West against each other. Believe me Apocalypse, things will get much worse between us, rifts and scars will develop, Jewish and Turkish politicians will create heated actions without thinking, we will both do things we could have handled differently. But our exceptional past relations will be a future panacea for the wounds subsequently devised by those which suit them. Things will blow over with time. You know very well how much secularists are dying to see Erdogan gone. In fact, Project Sledgehammer and Ergenekon are just fragments of the endless deep state networks devising plans to unseat them. Ataturk rooted us too deeply into secularism to let it go now. He wasn't just a politician; he was the savour of this country and a patriot who gave it back to the Turks. He avoided colonialism, he beat the Europeans, he is something we can never disregard or forget about because Turks love there country too much. A state within a state is a blessing in disguise. The "forces" that be in Turkey will put us back on track eventually.

I dont believe this country can go from flying Jewish flags in the streets of Istanbul to demonstrating against them in the streets in such a short amount of time (at least anything that will last permanently). Its a phase that requires American guidance. Im sick of Obama standing on the guidlines. He need a man on man talk with the government, he needs to apply pressure and give incentives to avoid a regional disaster. Our ties where the glue of what was left of stability in the region. To eradicate it will, as you said, very much please the same man who vowed to destroy Israel.
 
I have faith. There is a huge media hype in Turkey regarding the CHP. Either the deep state will swing the ball in there favour or Erdogan will screw up somehow in the time between now and then - you know how these politicians are (i know im advocating very anti-democracy beliefs here. But desperate times calls for desperate measures. Im a very pro-western person, and at the moment im praying for a coup). My belief is things will get much worse between us, Erdogan will play the Israel card to victimize Turkey and therefore brainwash the population into believing Israel is hostile towards us and gain more votes. But with the increasing tensions between secularists and islamists with an added mix of expanding PKK attacks, with any luck, Turkey will plunge into a period of civil strife and give the military a causus belli to step in and restore some damn order. I want to see that ***** Obama start pressuring our government too. It's not in our interests to tell Jews to piss off. They contribute to our economy, we know they are good people because we mix with them so much, and Israeli's know Turks are good people too. How much longer can we stand this shame?
Iran is the biggest winner here, not the Arabs, not the Palestinians. The biggest loosers are Erdogan, Netanyahu, and the entire NATO cause for the advancement of human rights.

My wife and I have a family friend from Iran. She was lucky enough to be able to emigrate to America in 1979, and in talking to her, it seems she both knew and didn't now the Islamist revolution was coming. The fact she emigrated when she did showed that the worried part won out over the part of her that said "It will continue to be the way it is", but she realized that the Islamism was a populist movement rather than something more artificial, and being a populist movement was much more dangerous.

I fear for Turkey, myself. I realize what you say about the military is true, but I also fear Turkey could go the way of Iran. The Iran of the 1960s was very western compared to today, no doubt due to the Shah's being propped up by the west, but also in much of the prevailing orientation of its educated populace. It's educated populace is STILL quite modern as the green movement has shown, but they do not have political power as it is in the hands of the Islamists. What will happen in Turkey when the Islamists gain such traction that even the military cannot hold them back? Is the only alternative a strong man leader, and if so, what will that mean for Turkey in the long run?
 
My wife and I have a family friend from Iran. She was lucky enough to be able to emigrate to America in 1979, and in talking to her, it seems she both knew and didn't now the Islamist revolution was coming. The fact she emigrated when she did showed that the worried part won out over the part of her that said "It will continue to be the way it is", but she realized that the Islamism was a populist movement rather than something more artificial, and being a populist movement was much more dangerous.

I fear for Turkey, myself. I realize what you say about the military is true, but I also fear Turkey could go the way of Iran. The Iran of the 1960s was very western compared to today, no doubt due to the Shah's being propped up by the west, but also in much of the prevailing orientation of its educated populace. It's educated populace is STILL quite modern as the green movement has shown, but they do not have political power as it is in the hands of the Islamists. What will happen in Turkey when the Islamists gain such traction that even the military cannot hold them back? Is the only alternative a strong man leader, and if so, what will that mean for Turkey in the long run?

I wish i could tell the future. But the state structure is very different to that of Iran, but i see your concerns.
Like it or not, Erdogan IS a moderate Islamist. Despite his flaws, he HAS given Turkey more democracy than under ANY Kemalist. We are FAR more fortunate than any Iranian ever was. We are unfortunate in the fact he is our leader, but fortunate in the sense that things could be much, much worse. We wont be like Iran under Erdogan, no chance. His prime ministry, however, could open the path for many more extreme Islamists - i will give you that much. But the military will just need to be a bit more secretive about there plans to unseat government in that scenario.
 
Turkey is just the latest Arab nation to have someone in power that is using the Palestinians and Israeli situation for their own political gain. Like most people (I believe we have fully covered the 'most' part) here, Turks dont give a **** about the Palestinians. Ah...but to be able to whip their people in a frenzy by using Jew hatred...now THATS a tried and true method no real Jew hater can pass up.

Look...there are some basic FACTS. Israel is CURRENTLY governed by Jewish people and has been since the late 40s. Palestinains have engaged in terrorist actions since that time and are committed to the death of Israel (not peace...not peaceful coexistence). Palestinans have also waged terror campaigns againts the Lebanese, Jordanian, and Egyptian people...so much so that NO ONE wants them. And as long as Palestinians remain commited to the destruction of Israel there will NEVER...NEVER be peace. You cant peacefully coexist with someone that is commited to your destruction.

Hell Im not even saying I dont understand the Palestinian frustration. But the facts remain the facts. Therefore the path to peace is simple. Israel will either defend itself or die. Israel being strong FORCED positive relations with Egypt and Jordan.
 
Turkey is just the latest Arab nation to have someone in power that is using the Palestinians and Israeli situation for their own political gain. Like most people (I believe we have fully covered the 'most' part) here, Turks dont give a **** about the Palestinians. Ah...but to be able to whip their people in a frenzy by using Jew hatred...now THATS a tried and true method no real Jew hater can pass up.

Look...there are some basic FACTS. Israel is CURRENTLY governed by Jewish people and has been since the late 40s. Palestinains have engaged in terrorist actions since that time and are committed to the death of Israel (not peace...not peaceful coexistence). Palestinans have also waged terror campaigns againts the Lebanese, Jordanian, and Egyptian people...so much so that NO ONE wants them. And as long as Palestinians remain commited to the destruction of Israel there will NEVER...NEVER be peace. You cant peacefully coexist with someone that is commited to your destruction.

Hell Im not even saying I dont understand the Palestinian frustration. But the facts remain the facts. Therefore the path to peace is simple. Israel will either defend itself or die. Israel being strong FORCED positive relations with Egypt and Jordan.

Please dont report this but are all Americans this ignorant?

TURKS AREN'T ARABS DAMMIT!

:(

I love you guys really.
 
Turkey is just the latest Arab nation to have someone in power that is using the Palestinians and Israeli situation for their own political gain. Like most people (I believe we have fully covered the 'most' part) here, Turks dont give a **** about the Palestinians. Ah...but to be able to whip their people in a frenzy by using Jew hatred...now THATS a tried and true method no real Jew hater can pass up.

Erdogan is a Jew hater, not Turks. I certainly am NOT one. My friends certainly are NOT. We cannot forget the days of our great friendship. This is a bumpy road in our history, it will pass with time. We've had much worse.

By the way, did you know the word dog in Turkish also means Arab?
Thats a deliberate connotation.
When they betrayed us during the Ottoman days, we became even more anti-Arab than any Jewish nationalist. So your comment about Palestinians ring true.
This is erdogan trying to gain more votes, nothing more. I for one couldn't care less about the plight of Palestinians.
My concern is - will Israel ever live in peace? Will Arabs ever live in peace with Israel? When will strong leadership from both sides bring them to the negotiation table? And what can be done to settle at least SOME of the realistic concerns of Palestinians?

Look...there are some basic FACTS. Israel is CURRENTLY governed by Jewish people and has been since the late 40s. Palestinains have engaged in terrorist actions since that time and are committed to the death of Israel (not peace...not peaceful coexistence). Palestinans have also waged terror campaigns againts the Lebanese, Jordanian, and Egyptian people...so much so that NO ONE wants them. And as long as Palestinians remain commited to the destruction of Israel there will NEVER...NEVER be peace. You cant peacefully coexist with someone that is commited to your destruction.

So very true.

Hell Im not even saying I dont understand the Palestinian frustration. But the facts remain the facts. Therefore the path to peace is simple. Israel will either defend itself or die. Israel being strong FORCED positive relations with Egypt and Jordan.

Egypt has a blockade on Gaza too. Thats sayin' something.
 
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Erdogan is a Jew hater, not Turks. I certainly am NOT one..

I would be happy to corborate that.

and truth be told, I do have at least some tendency to hold people's views to the light in this regard.
 
Please dont report this but are all Americans this ignorant?

TURKS AREN'T ARABS DAMMIT!

:(

I love you guys really.

Perhaps I should have said MUSLIMS...not ARABS...its early.

Edit-and for the record not ALL muslims. MOST couldnt care less about the Palestinians and Israelis. It is the extremists...the fundamentalists...that use them for their own gain.
 
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Perhaps I should have said MUSLIMS...not ARABS...its early.

Thats like calling us Greeks cause we look the same. Its insulting ;p

No but seriously, you are spot on. Its a desperate attempt to gain votes. War gains votes in a similar fashion; by victimizing your country, you just cant go wrong as a political leader.
 
Erdogan is a Jew hater, not Turks. I certainly am NOT one. My friends certainly are NOT. We cannot forget the days of our great friendship. This is a bumpy road in our history, it will pass with time. We've had much worse.

By the way, did you know the word dog in Turkish also means Arab?
Thats a deliberate connotation.
When they betrayed us during the Ottoman days, we became even more anti-Arab than any Jewish nationalist. So your comment about Palestinians ring true.
This is erdogan trying to gain more votes, nothing more. I for one couldn't care less about the plight of Palestinians.
My concern is - will Israel ever live in peace? Will Arabs ever live in peace with Israel? When will strong leadership from both sides bring them to the negotiation table? And what can be done to settle at least SOME of the realistic concerns of Palestinians?



So very true.



Egypt has a blockade on Gaza too. Thats sayin' something.

Admittedly...I typed the wrong word. I have lived in Turkey for just short of two years. I get their heritage. Point is still the same...and at the moment in Turkey there is a tendency toward radical Muslim leadership. I HOPE its a hase and passing trend Turkey HAS been a good ally.
 
Thats like calling us Greeks cause we look the same. Its insulting ;p

No but seriously, you are spot on. Its a desperate attempt to gain votes. War gains votes in a similar fashion; by victimizing your country, you just cant go wrong as a political leader.

Well hopefully the use of the word of 'nation' vs 'country' would indicate my intent. "muslim nation"..."turkish country"...its an identity thing. I typed the worng word in in haste. The post remains valid. There will NEVER be peace in Israel until one side or the other is exterminated. I dont relish the thought. I am not advocating a side...just pointing out the facts. They COULD peacefully coexist if they wanted to. But thats simply NOT going to happen.
 
Well hopefully the use of the word of 'nation' vs 'country' would indicate my intent. "muslim nation"..."turkish country"...its an identity thing. I typed the worng word in in haste. The post remains valid. There will NEVER be peace in Israel until one side or the other is exterminated. I dont relish the thought. I am not advocating a side...just pointing out the facts. They COULD peacefully coexist if they wanted to. But thats simply NOT going to happen.

Im only kidding with you dont worry.
Yes that is an unfortunate thought. But what do you think would happen if, hypothetically speaking, Israel where to return to there pre-1967 boarders and remove the blockade? Would the Arabs still be demanding, or would it just be the Palestinians?
 
I wish i could tell the future. But the state structure is very different to that of Iran, but i see your concerns.
Like it or not, Erdogan IS a moderate Islamist. Despite his flaws, he HAS given Turkey more democracy than under ANY Kemalist. We are FAR more fortunate than any Iranian ever was. We are unfortunate in the fact he is our leader, but fortunate in the sense that things could be much, much worse. We wont be like Iran under Erdogan, no chance. His prime ministry, however, could open the path for many more extreme Islamists - i will give you that much. But the military will just need to be a bit more secretive about there plans to unseat government in that scenario.

I dont pretend to know Turkey as well as you...but when I was there the Turkish government and military had to walk a fine line...balance what I saw as the healthy majority, avoiding conflict with Muslim extremism, fight Kurdish incursion...keep the US happy, the UN and Europe happy...what a stressful potential powderkeg. Its been a while. And I have to say...I loved my time there...especially time AWAY from the bases.
 
Im only kidding with you dont worry.
Yes that is an unfortunate thought. But what do you think would happen if, hypothetically speaking, Israel where to return to there pre-1967 boarders and remove the blockade? Would the Arabs still be demanding, or would it just be the Palestinians?

As Kaya correctly pointed out...the extremist MUSLIMS (NOT 'Arabs') would just use that as a foothold for increased attacks and the MAJORITY of Palestinians would as well. No...I dont think there would EVER be peace...even with concessions. Frankly I think there has been too much damage and exists too much mistrust even amongst the moderates on both sides to ever have a lasting peace.
 
I dont pretend to know Turkey as well as you...but when I was there the Turkish government and military had to walk a fine line...balance what I saw as the healthy majority, avoiding conflict with Muslim extremism, fight Kurdish incursion...keep the US happy, the UN and Europe happy...what a stressful potential powderkeg. Its been a while. And I have to say...I loved my time there...especially time AWAY from the bases.

Im guessing incirlik?
 
yep...twice. I am pretty sure Izmir was closed down or in caretaker status by then...I was able to get away quite a bit. Life away from the base and 'the alley was actually quite nice. I made friends with a few Turks on the golf course there that showed me around quite a bit. Nowhere near as much as I would have liked...but still...
 
yep...twice. I am pretty sure Izmir was closed down or in caretaker status by then...I was able to get away quite a bit. Life away from the base and 'the alley was actually quite nice. I made friends with a few Turks on the golf course there that showed me around quite a bit. Nowhere near as much as I would have liked...but still...

Well its good to have you boys there. Wish i could have the fortune of being stationed there myself. Best place to be in that region imo
 
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