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Thread: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I thought those two weren't mutually exclusive.








    they are, either you choose to turn islamic and then you get closer to Iran or the other Arab states, or you choose the democratic way and you get closer to the EU

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    To get closer to the Arab states/Iran without weakening ties with the EU. Turkey's biggest downgrades in its relationship with Israel come at times when Israel is under criticism from many in the international community. Hence, its substantive policy shifts don't stand out. If Turkey were to do so during relatively quiet periods, they would, and that outcome would raise questions about Turkey's reliability. Turkey very much wants to join the EU.
    So it's strategical.

    Do you exclude the possibility that there could be some legitimate criticism towards Israel?

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    To get closer to the Arab states/Iran without weakening ties with the EU. Turkey's biggest downgrades in its relationship with Israel come at times when Israel is under criticism from many in the international community. Hence, its substantive policy shifts don't stand out. If Turkey were to do so during relatively quiet periods, they would, and that outcome would raise questions about Turkey's reliability. Turkey very much wants to join the EU.
    Correction: the Turkish government very much wants to join the EU, although support is weakening. Popular support is ambivalent at best.
    Last edited by Andalublue; 06-05-10 at 09:16 AM. Reason: mistake with multi-quote
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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Correction: the Turkish government very much wants to join the EU, although support is weakening. Popular support is ambivalent at best.
    Well one thing can be said for sure. Turkey wants the EU a hell of a lot more than the UK does.

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Why would they have?
    What i,m trying to highlight is their is no policy shift from the Palestinians by voting Hamas. However they are perceived by the outside world. Hamas rhetoric plays to the deep felt injustice of the Palestinians.

    Paul
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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Much like the PKK is a product of Turkey's policies, Hamas too is a product of Israeli policies. This whole "i love perfect Israel" rhetoric aside, we need to be rational and realize that Israel DOES have major flaws with its policies against Gaza, and it needs to be addressed. The population in Gaza is highly dissatisfied. Now, they wont be fully content until they grab East Jerusalem, but they wont need the likes of Hamas in the event the unjust blockade is lifted. The election of Hamas reflects this discontent against Israeli policies. Nobody votes for terrorist governments unless they are pinned against the wall. The security concerns of lifting the blockade is legit; my point is, its nothing normal border controls cannot contain. Israel restricts the entrance of many basic commodities. "Aid" is not enough, it should not make you feel good about yourselves because you let some through. A nation has the right to achieve its own economic goals without interference.
    Last edited by MetalGear; 06-05-10 at 09:36 AM.

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    So it's strategical.

    Do you exclude the possibility that there could be some legitimate criticism towards Israel?
    Turkey has policy disagreements with Israel. However, the extent of Turkey's policy revision goes far beyond what one would reasonably expect if policy disagreements, alone, were the driver. After all, many EU countries also hold similar positions on the maritime blockade, among other things, yet the EU has not substantively downgraded its relations with Israel.

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Correction: the Turkish government very much wants to join the EU, although support is weakening. Popular support is ambivalent at best.
    When I refer to Turkey's wanting to join the EU, I'm referring to Turkey's government. I'm discussing its policy choices.

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Hamas not a terrorist group. Hahahahahaha
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalGear View Post
    Much like the PKK is a product of Turkey's policies, Hamas too is a product of Israeli policies. This whole "i love perfect Israel" rhetoric aside, we need to be rational and realize that Israel DOES have major flaws with its policies against Gaza, and it needs to be addressed. The population in Gaza is highly dissatisfied. Now, they wont be fully content until they grab East Jerusalem, but they wont need the likes of Hamas in the event the unjust blockade is lifted. The election of Hamas reflects this discontent against Israeli policies. Nobody votes for terrorist governments unless they are pinned against the wall. The security concerns of lifting the blockade is legit; my point is, its nothing normal border controls cannot contain. Israel restricts the entrance of many basic commodities. "Aid" is not enough, it should not make you feel good about yourselves because you let some through. A nation has the right to achieve its own economic goals without interference.
    Some of those 'basic commodities' not being sanctioned are sand/cement/ building materials. so reconstruction from Israels last incursion has pretty much been non-existent. I would hazard a guess how this makes the population feel towards the perceived aggressor.

    Paul
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