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Thread: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Anyone who has a interest in the ME should care about Turkey and its actions and the impact it will have on the ME.

    It is a member of NATO and has access to EU's President and economic ties. It is closer to Europe I would argue than Israel is.
    It is close to the Arab nations surrounding Israel and also Iran/Syria and more importantly Russia/China.

    Turkey has moved away from the West and seems to me to be moving into the Iranian axis which would spell danger to Israel.
    I kinda admire Turkey's guts, its moving itself into a strategic position of being the go-between guy between US/West and the Arab nations.
    Granted you are correct
    and its true that i forgot thous facts and i should care.
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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Anyone who has a interest in the ME should care about Turkey and its actions and the impact it will have on the ME.

    It is a member of NATO and has access to EU's President and economic ties. It is closer to Europe I would argue than Israel is.
    It is close to the Arab nations surrounding Israel and also Iran/Syria and more importantly Russia/China.

    Turkey has moved away from the West and seems to me to be moving into the Iranian axis which would spell danger to Israel.
    I kinda admire Turkey's guts, its moving itself into a strategic position of being the go-between guy between US/West and the Arab nations.
    I completely agree with you(Without of course admiring their "guts" (=becoming an Islamist theocracy)).

    Besides the support for the terrorist organization of Hamas, and the apparent connection to the IHH, Turkey seems to have became a full and titled Islamist nation.
    One of its major news sites have uploaded pictures the IHH members took from the ship where they're seen on the Mavi Marmara beating soldiers that are not fighting back, lying on the ground and bleeding, and the title of the article is "Tears of the commandos" as if to mock the Israeli soldiers.
    Another major newspaper in Turkey has published an article asking if Israel is behind the PKK attack on Turkey.
    That's outright incitement, the kind we're used to see coming from Iran and Hezbollah's Lebanon.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 06-06-10 at 08:43 AM.
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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I completely agree with you(Without of course admiring their "guts" (=becoming an Islamist theocracy)).

    Besides the support for the terrorist organization of Hamas, and the apparent connection to the IHH, Turkey seems to have became a full and titled Islamist nation.
    One of its major news sites have uploaded pictures the IHH members took from the ship where they're seen on the Mavi Marmara beating soldiers that are not fighting back, lying on the ground and bleeding, and the title of the article is "Tears of the commandos" as if to mock the Israeli soldiers.
    Another major newspaper in Turkey has published an article asking if Israel is behind the PKK attack on Turkey.
    That's outright incitement, the kind we're used to see coming from Iran and Hezbollah's Lebanon.
    Israel should have seen this coming and I do put a bit of the blame in a way on Israel's shoulders.
    It played right into the hand of the Islamists in Turkey.

    The military and secularists were the most Pro Israel in Turkey but what Turk is actually going to have the guts to defend Israel when its soldiers have killed their nationals? This incident had given those in Turkey who want to move away from Israel the excuse to do so and no one can stop it without seeming disloyal. Israel fell into a trap.
    I admire Turkey because I do think it is a model country for Muslims, it hasn't let go of its Muslim heritage and has placed itself in a position of being a major player in the region.
    Its influence over Iran and the Arab public will affect decisions as will their friendship with China/Russia.

    Israel stands more to lose from Turkey severing ties as an ally than Turkey has of losing them. Sure Israel sold weapons but Turkey can turn to the Saudis for that.
    It will be interesting to see where Turkey/Israel go from here. Either way whatever side Turkey chooses, it will have impact on the balance of power in the region
    Last edited by Laila; 06-06-10 at 08:51 AM.


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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Israel should have seen this coming and I do put a bit of the blame in a way on Israel's shoulders.
    Israel couldn't see this coming.
    We in Israel are used to see peaceful activists in the form of peaceful activists, we're not used to see people who claim to be peaceful activists and turn out to be jihadist militants.
    The military and secularists were the most Pro Israel in Turkey but what Turk is actually going to have the guts to defend Israel when its soldiers have killed their nationals?
    If a British citizen gets killed in Afghanistan after he tries to stab an American soldier, would you back him up?
    I wouldn't back a citizen of my country up if he'd try to murder a Turksih soldier.
    This incident had given those in Turkey who want to move away from Israel the excuse to do so and no one can stop it without seeming disloyal.
    I agree.
    Israel fell into a trap.
    Any other country would as well.
    I admire Turkey because I do think it is a model country for Muslims, it hasn't let go of its Muslim heritage and has placed itself in a position of being a major player in the region.
    No more than Iran really, they've given up on any Western value and are now a bunch of theocrats and terrorist-supporters.
    Its influence over Iran and the Arab public will affect decisions as will their friendship with China/Russia.
    Will negatively affect decisions from the Western prespective.
    We've already seen what they and Brazil did with Iran.
    Israel stands more to lose from Turkey severing ties as an ally than Turkey has of losing them. Sure Israel sold weapons but Turkey can turn to the Saudis for that.
    It will be interesting to see where Turkey/Israel go from here.
    Well here you're absolutely wrong.
    The percentage of Turkey in the Israeli economy is nearly half than that of Israel's in the Turkish economy.
    They make one point something of our economy and we make two point something of theirs.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Israel couldn't see this coming.
    We in Israel are used to see peaceful activists in the form of peaceful activists, we're not used to see people who claim to be peaceful activists and turn out to be jihadist militants.
    If a British citizen gets killed in Afghanistan after he tries to stab an American soldier, would you back him up?
    I wouldn't back a citizen of my country up if he'd try to murder a Turksih soldier.
    I agree.
    Any other country would as well.
    No more than Iran really, they've given up on any Western value and are now a bunch of theocrats and terrorist-supporters.
    Will negatively affect decisions from the Western prespective.
    We've already seen what they and Brazil did with Iran.
    Well here you're absolutely wrong.
    The percentage of Turkey in the Israeli economy is nearly half than that of Israel's in the Turkish economy.
    Really? You couldn't tell Turkey was moving away from Israel and any major incident would have profound impact on the alliance?

    Perhaps but Iran is still a player in the region, especially with the wonderful helpful boost UK and US gave them by removing Saddam.

    And you don't think Turkey will get investment from elsewhere? Turkey is not the same country it was 50 years ago, I would argue it is rediscovering its Ottoman roots and using its Islamic history to influence Muslim countries (successfully). Turkey not held down by the Persian/Arab or Israeli/Arab rivalries and history, can do things for the United States in the ME that Israel simply canít. I would put Turkey as more important in the ME than Israel especially seeing US is still bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq.


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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Really? You couldn't tell Turkey was moving away from Israel and any major incident would have profound impact on the alliance?
    I thought you were reffering to the flotila raid with that statement?
    Perhaps but Iran is still a player in the region, especially with the wonderful helpful boost UK and US gave them by removing Saddam.
    Iran is a player, sure, but a player of the axis.
    And you don't think Turkey will get investment from elsewhere?
    I know they'll get an investment from elsewhere, just like Israel, but my point was that they are losing more from this disconnection than Israel does.
    Turkey is not the same country it was 50 years ago, I would argue it is rediscovering its Ottoman roots and using its Islamic history to influence Muslim countries (successfully). Turkey not held down by the Persian/Arab or Israeli/Arab rivalries and history, can do things for the United States in the ME that Israel simply can’t.
    Perhaps, perhaps not.
    I can't see the relavency, I'm stating that they're becoming an Islamic theocracy and hence a threat to the Western world.
    I would put Turkey as more important in the ME than Israel especially seeing US is still bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    I'd argue against it, they may have a hand with Iran and the rest of the dictatorships, but Israel is the only Western nation in the ME.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    I'd argue against it, they may have a hand with Iran and the rest of the dictatorships, but Israel is the only Western nation in the ME.
    I'd argue against that.

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalGear View Post
    I'd argue against that.
    Name another nation.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/sto...p The Presses!

    I care more about Ricky Martin being gay than this. Turkey Israel relations will be heated, Erdogan will loose the elections now surrounding this new hype about a new CHP leadership, the Kemalists take over, 10-15 years from now Jews will be calling us brothers again, or better yet the military flips out and kills the fascists in power. Israeli-Turkey military relations remain the same. Government relations with Israel is bad but i dont think people here realize how seperate the army is from the government in Turkey, and how the Turkey's military still favours Israel strongly and is not with Erdogan on this one. The military has a good relationship with the IDF, wants to keep it that way cause the Jews make cool weapons, and still maintains one of the strictest punishments for anti-Semitism within its establishment. Try insulting Israel in the Turkish army, you'll find yourself doing community service in no time.

    No doubt they are not as involved in politics as they once where, but do you really think if Kemalism is put at stake anymore they will just sit back and let it happen? Times like this im glad we have a deep state.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 06-06-10 at 09:27 AM.

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    Re: Hamas not a terrorist group, says Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Name another nation.
    Turkey? Bitch all you want about Erdogan, there's still more damage to be done before we go down that path.

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