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Thread: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    No political reason?

    How about:
    - Israel seizing power of the area
    - The oppression of Palestine for 50+ years by Israel and how the U.S. has been backing them
    - U.S. bases being located on the Middle East
    - The U.S. invading Iraq
    - The U.S. military killing countless civilians, even if it was on accident
    People can have all sorts of stated reasons for stuff, including the brutal murder of women and children. That doesn't mean those reasons are the truth. Again, we're talking about animals who blow themselves up along with as many innocent civilians as they can manage.

    Uh... peace. What, is that not good enough?
    Well of course there are obvious problems with your reasoning. I suppose the most basic of which is that the loser doesn't dictate the terms of surrender.

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    If you had read about Israeli-Hamas relationship history, you would probobly find it hard to trust Hamas.. they always talk about "peace" and "cease fire" but the main goal is to make this quiet moment and them make IDF to respond militarily as a result of "self defense" suicide bomb in the middle of a mall or on a bus full with children and civilians.

    Dont you see that Hamas doesnt care about peace? if they cared about peace, first of all, the aid cargo that been sent from the convoys they will let it through, but they decided to decline this aid.

    Secondary, it's easy to talk about peace and condition when you sit in your villa in Damascus, Syria. Yes, the heads of Hamas sits in a foreign county knowing nothing about hunder.

    If Hamas so care about it's inmates in Israel so Gilad Shalit should be released without any "considerations" by the Hamas leader, the Israeli government ready to release more the 1000 prisoners in exchange for one single soldier.

    If Hamas so cares about it's people, why they didnt accept the aid cargo that waits only their permision to enter Gaza and let the population some reliefe?

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    Thank you, I thought that I was the one that was missing something in the comment.
    Since it's your link, am assuming you read it. Did you have any problem with this comment in the article??

    "But when asked about Hamas' call for Israel's destruction, Zahar would not say whether that remains the goal. "We are not speaking about the future, we are speaking now," he said. "


    Does seem like the article you are trying to use as exculpatory evidence fits better as just the opposite....


    .

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Out of all the boats to be named after Rachel Corrie I would have thought that they would have named a boat like this after her.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    No political reason?

    How about:
    - Israel seizing power of the area
    - The oppression of Palestine for 50+ years by Israel and how the U.S. has been backing them
    - U.S. bases being located on the Middle East
    - The U.S. invading Iraq
    - The U.S. military killing countless civilians, even if it was on accident

    Not to mention the CIA created the Taliban, leading to them taking control of Afghanistan
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    People can have all sorts of stated reasons for stuff, including the brutal murder of women and children. That doesn't mean those reasons are the truth. Again, we're talking about animals who blow themselves up along with as many innocent civilians as they can manage.
    Please explain this part.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenA59 View Post
    Well of course there are obvious problems with your reasoning. I suppose the most basic of which is that the loser doesn't dictate the terms of surrender.
    What the hell is Gaza supposed to offer besides a cease fire / peace?

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Since it's your link, am assuming you read it. Did you have any problem with this comment in the article??

    "But when asked about Hamas' call for Israel's destruction, Zahar would not say whether that remains the goal. "We are not speaking about the future, we are speaking now," he said. "


    Does seem like the article you are trying to use as exculpatory evidence fits better as just the opposite....


    .
    I don't understand why you guys keep taking their words out of context.

    Zahar told CNN if Israel "is ready to give us the national demand to withdraw from the occupied area (in) '67; to release our detainees; to stop their aggression; to make geographic link between Gaza Strip and West Bank, at that time, with assurance from other sides, we are going to accept to establish our independent state at that time, and give us one or two, 10, 15 years time in order to see what is the real intention of Israel after that."

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I think if you hang out with known jihadists and terrorists, sure absolutley.
    What known terrorists do you talk of?

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    What the hell is Gaza supposed to offer besides a cease fire / peace?
    Well.. particularly NOTHING... but they have to recognize Irael as a state.
    The peace must be peace.. and not every weekend the Hamas will launch a Kassam rockets and during the week we're in peace.

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    I don't understand why you guys keep taking their words out of context.
    Not sure which "us guys' you are trying to label. My question is pretty direct. Do you believe the statement by Zahar is more than a little troubling? When asked if the annihilation of Israel is still a goal he declines to dismiss that as one of their desires.

    Trying to stay open minded in the debate here. But are we both speaking english....??


    .

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    Re: Ireland: Rachel Corrie won't dock at Ashdod

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Since it's your link, am assuming you read it. Did you have any problem with this comment in the article??

    "But when asked about Hamas' call for Israel's destruction, Zahar would not say whether that remains the goal. "We are not speaking about the future, we are speaking now," he said. "


    Does seem like the article you are trying to use as exculpatory evidence fits better as just the opposite....


    .
    "We can accept to establish our independent state on the area occupied (in) '67," he said. Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza in the Six-Day War of 1967.

    Key conditions could allow Palestinians to give a "long-term hudna or long-term truce," and "after that, let time heal," he said.

    But when asked about Hamas' call for Israel's destruction, Zahar would not say whether that remains the goal. "We are not speaking about the future, we are speaking now," he said.

    Zahar argued that Israel has no true intention of accepting a Palestinian state, despite international agreements including the Road Map for Middle East peace.

    Until Israel says what its final borders will be, Hamas will not say whether it will ever recognize Israel, Zahar said. "If Israel is ready to tell the people what is the official border, after that we are going to answer this question."
    I bolded the main parts you left out.

    But to ensure that we're on the same page, I'll try to explain how I'm looking at this...

    Israel seized control of the West Bank in 1967 during the "Six Day War". I've seen multiple different sources claiming one side attacked the other first and vice versa, but never-the-less Israel was the victor and ended up in control of the West Bank.

    So now, Hamas wants the West Bank back to use it to create an Arab-Palestinian State. Zahar is saying that Israel needs to decide where it's borders lay. If they choose to give the West Bank back to the Arab-Palestinians, it sounds like they would be willing to have peace. If Israel chooses to keep the West Bank, then one can pretty much guarantee there will be no cease-fire, no peace treaty, Hamas will not recognize Israel as a state, and they will likely continue to wish the destruction of Israel.

    It's a tough choice for Israel to make given the history the Arabs and Jews have with one another. Either Hamas or Israel needs to give in... and I just have a feeling neither side will.

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