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Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

Possibly, however it would have to be more evidence than one, or two ex interrogators that the liberal left is touting as some sort of 'told you so' example.

No I don't think that ignorance is the totality of the situation here, and neither is some sort of, as you put it 'testosterone fueled' need for vengeance. It is the realization that after some thirty plus years, maybe more of ignoring the problem of the jihadist war waged on the US and western civilization as a whole by Muslim thugs that hold a 7th century vision of dominance want not to negotiate with us as a people for peace, but rather want to dominate our culture and force us into submission, or kill us. If you don't understand that precept of the Koran, and where radicals are using it to fuel hatred within their own culture, and project that hatred outward into manifestations of attacks, and death around the world aimed at western civilizations, then sir, it is you with your eyes and ears plugged so as not to see.

What you show me here with the video is exactly what the liberal left that often seems to side with our enemies more often than not in this country, and that is to hold up one example of someone with inside knowledge of operations, and extrapolate that to a one size fits all scenario. Then taking that lone voice and speaking for the intel community as a whole. It is disingenuous, and dangerous as a tactic, and harkens back to a time where America thought themselves invincible to outside attack due to our power, and the set up of our country being a fortress country.

In short, I view this struggle as one where conventional scenarios of war, and peace are useless in the outcomes of normalized culture, fore the enemy we fight bears no flag, but has many nation allies either through willingness, or forced submission. It is an ideological threat that is at least 10 times more dangerous than that of any of the conventional wars we have ever fought where an enemy could surrender and sign a treaty. This enemy wants no treaty, no talks, no quarter. Only submission, and death.

So you can believe all you want that we are our own worst enemy, and that you can somehow reason with a true enemy that bases their war on total destruction of western culture through any means necessary, and be content to watch your country, and way of life disappear only to be told in stories to future generations, I for one do not accept that. Be careful my friend whom you bed with in the ideal of destroying western civilization, you may be the first 'useful dupe' they come after.

I get your frustration with this war, with this enemy, with their use of religion to fuel their fires. But, nowhere in your eloquent post is anything showing that torture is "effective". Using the right wing rhetoric that "it is only the liberals and the left who are against torture" is disingenuous and an excuse to inflict pain on our enemy. Many Repubs have come out against torture, including the Repubs' god Ronnie Reagan! If you can take your I-hate-anything-left blinders off and look at this issue with a clear mind you just might see that there are very real reasons why professional like Soufan are against torture... it just doesn't work. Our enemies don't come filled with more hate for us than KSM. Yet, Soufan elicited very good intel from him with conversation and intelligence. He didn't have to break his arm or drown him. THAT is how actionable, real intelligence is gotten.

Here are a few links to sites showing Repub leaders who are against torture. Are their eyes and ears plugged too?

General David Petraeus said this past weekend that President Obama's decision to close down Gitmo and end harsh interrogation techniques would benefit the United States in the broader war on terror.General Petraeus goes on to say that he believes we need to stay within the Geneva Convention, and that closing Gitmo "sends an important message to the world, as does the commitment of the United States to observe the Geneva Convention when it comes to the treatment of detainees."
VetVoice:: Petraeus Against Torture, For Closing Gitmo

[FONT=&quot]I'd like to remind Americans, especially those that are in favor of torturing prisoners, that if former President Ronald Reagan or Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich are heroes of yours, that they both were against torturing and inhuman abusive acts. Newt was against it before he was for it.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]From President Reagan's signing statement ratifying the UN Convention on Torture from 1984:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention. It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]other inhuman treatment or punishment[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called 'universal jurisdiction.' Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution."[/FONT]
GOP were Against Torture Before Being For It - Reagan and Newt | coonsey's Blog

And from another professional who knows what is torture, what the effects of torture are and how our use of it actually helped Al Qaeda to recruit more terrorists. We in effect, by torturing them, only help our enemy. How does that make any sense?

Malcolm Nance Challenges Torture Proponent Thiessen Back in late April, Scott Horton interviewed Malcolm Nance. Nance, a former SERE"Waterboarding is Torture... Period," is superb, and Nance later testified to Congress on torture and SERE training. instructor, has a new book out on Al Qaeda and the Middle East. His October 2007 piece, Meanwhile, Marc Thiessen, a former speechwriter for Bush and Rumsfeld, is one of the most odious and prominent of torture apologists/proponents. Here's Horton's question and Nance's response on Thiessen:
You previously served as a master instructor in the SERE program, in which pilots were prepared, among other things, to endure waterboarding. The SERE training program, we later learned, was reverse engineered to produce “enhanced interrogation techniques” for the CIA. Recently a White House speechwriter named Marc Thiessen has played a vocal role in the campaign that the Cheneys have launched to justify the use of waterboarding. He insists that it absolutely is not torture, and he insists that it’s different from the technique used by the Khmer Rouge. Does Thiessen know what he’s talking about?

I spent twenty years in intelligence and four years in the SERE program waterboarding people before I ever opened my mouth on the subject. Marc Thiessen is a fool of the highest magnitude if he thinks he knows anything about waterboarding. His claims are based not on first-hand experience but on a classified briefing from people with an agenda of justifying what was done. That makes Thiessen into a court stenographer for war criminals rather than a person with any real claim of expertise. As for his claim about the relationship between Pol Pot–era waterboarding and what we have done derived from the SERE program, he’s wrong.Remember, our goal was to prepare pilots for the techniques they might face if they fell into the hands of our enemies. I was waterboarded on arrival at SERE, and then as a senior staffer, I performed the technique or supervised it through hundreds of evolutions.

Thiessen’s central purpose is apparently to glorify the most extreme practices used by the CIA in the Bush era and to argue that each of these practices, including waterboarding, is vitally necessary to our national security–even though no president used them before, and it seems that President Bush himself halted many of these practices over Cheney’s objection. We have prosecuted and convicted men for using these techniques in the past, and we were right to do so.

This suggests to me that, while he may cite Thomas Aquinas, Thiessen has no sense of honor and no moral compass. I give him credit for his loyalty to the Cheneys, but he’s blind to their errors in judgment. The use of waterboarding and other torture techniques was a powerful recruitment tool for Al Qaeda; it spawned thousands of would-be suicide bombers. Thiessen claims that we gained “intelligence” by using these torture techniques. But this shows that he knows nothing about the intelligence process or how our enemy grows and sustains itself.

Thousands of American POWs died and suffered resisting torture practices that we have always called the tools of the enemy. The SERE program was designed to help them grapple with this inhumanity and retain their dignity in the face of it. Now Thiessen and his boss want us to embrace the tactics we used in that program–taken from the Russians, the Communist Chinese, the North Koreans, the North Vietnamese, the Khmer Rouge–as our own. He claims that these techniques are unpleasant but have no long-term physical or mental impact. Really? I challenge him to put up or shut up. I offer to put him through just one hour of the CIA enhanced interrogation techniques that were authorized in the Bush Administration’s OLC memos–including the CIA-approved variant of waterboarding. If at the end he still believes this is not torture, I’ll respect his viewpoint. But not until then. By the way, I can assure you that, within that hour, I’ll secure Thiessen’s written admission that waterboarding is torture and that his book is a pack of falsehoods. He’ll give me any statement I want in order to end the torture.

Vagabond Scholar: Malcolm Nance Challenges Torture Proponent Thiessen
Before I arrived at SERE, I went to S21 prison in Cambodia. Right next to the Wall of Skulls sits the exact waterboard platform that the SERE program copied for our own use in the training program.​
Is Nance, and Reagan!, really more liberal lefties that you're going to ignore simply because they agree with the left's views of torture?

There are hundreds of such sites with intelligent reasons why torture makes no sense. If you can remove your anti-liberal glasses, I am confident you'll see that using torture on our enemies does not help us or our cause at all.



*Note - Sorry for the quotes not in quote boxes. This Quote tool is soooo hosed!
 
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He means Saddam Hussein and the Taliban were innocent. Come on!

Show me what Hussein did to the US to give us a legitimate reason to invade Iraq. :coffeepap
 
"Stupid stances" like yours are how Bush & Cheeney convinced this country to invade an innocent country! Torturing Al Libby produced lies. Those lies were believed, actually "used" in spite of warnings from the Brits they were lies.

No, torture being an effective method did not get us into Iraq. They made a stupid mistake with Al Libby by not clarifying there source.

"Stupid stances" like yours produced dozens of wild goose chases from the lies torture produced from KSM wasting FBI and CIA resources and time that could have better been used running down true intel.

Again, no. You are looking at the time torture did not work because source's where not carefully clarified enough. I can wager it has worked far more than it has failed.

Show me where torture produced any actionable information. Links would be appreciated.

Be my guest:

Torture Works. Just Ask U.S. POWs from the Korean War by Jacob G. Hornberger

You'll note no one has come back here with any kind of evidence that KSM actually prevented any attack on LA, from torture induced intel. Because it didn't happen.

Do you think you would know about it anyway? Hardly something the CIA sings about.
Also, what would have happened if we never waterboarded this guy? How many people would have died because we didn't know anything?
 
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No, torture being an effective method did not get us into Iraq. They made a stupid mistake with Al Libby by not clarifying there source.

That's right. Torture being an ineffective method did.


Again, no. You are looking at the time torture did not work because source's where not carefully clarified enough.
No. I'm looking at all the times it has not worked. I'm looking to the professional experts who do this stuff for a living who say torture doesn't work.

I can wager it has worked far more than it has failed.
Prove it.

I never said torture doesn't produce results. I said it doesn't produce actionable, true information. A person being tortured will certainly reach his breaking point and say something. If he has something on subject to say he may say that. However, if the torture continues and he has nothing else to offer on the subject, or if he never had anything to offer, what will he do then? He will say anything that will get the torture to stop. How do his torturers know what it true and what is not? They don't. So, the torture continues and the lies continue to spew. This is what happened with KSM. He gave them so much bull**** they didn't know what was factual. Is this really so hard for you to understand? :roll:

Do you think you would know about it anyway? Hardly something the CIA sings about. Also, what would have happened if we never waterboarded this guy? How many people would have died because we didn't know anything?
You say this as if KSM (I assume that's who you're yapping about) gave up intel that saved anyone's life or prevented an attack. Got any proof?

By the by, your own article makes my point.

Well, except for one thing. Ask any American POW during the Korean War if touchless torture is no big deal. Because the fact is that touchless torture was successful in doing to American soldiers, including officers, what it succeeded in doing to Khalid Sheik Mohammed. The touchless torture employed by the North Korean communists so messed up the minds of American servicemen that they ended up zombie-like and confessing to all sorts of evil crimes, including waging biological warfare, against the communists.
 
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I guess posting links and asking ADK to post links to his false claims made him to avoid me all together. How lucky am I. :ssst:
 

Do you have anything to add to this post besides lamely posting only 2 links? Can you explain how these links validate an act of war?

I easily could throw your childish “FAIL” back at you but, that would be giving you too much credit. You would have to actually “begin” before you could achieve a “FAIL”.
 
Do you have anything to add to this post besides lamely posting only 2 links? Can you explain how these links validate an act of war?

I easily could throw your childish “FAIL” back at you but, that would be giving you too much credit. You would have to actually “begin” before you could achieve a “FAIL”.



My posts clearly show several reasons for the invasion of your precious saddam and iraq. :shrug:



BTW, Will you be linking to US courts convicting US Soldiers of torture for waterboarding anytime soon or are you avoiding this lie of yours hoping it will go away?


the failure of course is all yours, sir.
 

That's right. Torture being an ineffective method did.

Source?

No. I'm looking at all the times it has not worked. I'm looking to the professional experts who do this stuff for a living who say torture doesn't work.

You are taking a handful of accounts it has not worked and using it as the basis of your argument. How many times has normal interrogation failed to reap results? One cannot say "torture works" or "torture does not work". Torture and normal interrogation has a varying degree of success. When somebody is put under immense pain and pressure, the chances of them talking is significantly increased. Your argument that they may say anything to stop the pain is a correct argument, but to then act on that intel without clarifying what has been told is negligence. If he/she is lying, we need to go back to the water boarding room and persist until eventually, and inevitable, they spill the beans.

Prove it.

I am merely making a logical assumption. Considering the nature of torture and its world wide use, can you honestly say that torture is not a quicker way of cracking the man? What makes a terrorist any more likely to tell the truth while being interrogated? These are questions YOU need to answer to effectively disprove torture.

I never said torture doesn't produce results. I said it doesn't produce actionable, true information. A person being tortured will certainly reach his breaking point and say something. If he has something on subject to say he may say that. However, if the torture continues and he has nothing else to offer on the subject, or if he never had anything to offer, what will he do then? He will say anything that will get the torture to stop. How do his torturers know what it true and what is not? They don't. So, the torture continues and the lies continue to spew. This is what happened with KSM. He gave them so much bull**** they didn't know what was factual. Is this really so hard for you to understand? :roll:

Read above.

You say this as if KSM (I assume that's who you're yapping about) gave up intel that saved anyone's life or prevented an attack. Got any proof?


Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the by, your own article makes my point.

The article proves one point only; that torture should not be overused. A line needs to be drawn.
 
My posts clearly show several reasons for the invasion of your precious saddam and iraq.

I certainly don't want to read into what your anemic posting of 2 lone links means. Can you link those 2 links to taking our country to war or not?
 
I certainly don't want to read into what your anemic posting of 2 lone links means. Can you link those 2 links to taking our country to war or not?





BTW, Will you be linking to US courts convicting US Soldiers of torture for waterboarding anytime soon or are you avoiding this lie of yours hoping it will go away



4th request, or are you conceding you were lying?
 
You are taking a handful of accounts it has not worked and using it as the basis of your argument. How many times has normal interrogation failed to reap results? One cannot say "torture works" or "torture does not work". Torture and normal interrogation has a varying degree of success. When somebody is put under immense pain and pressure, the chances of them talking is significantly increased. Your argument that they may say anything to stop the pain is a correct argument, but to then act on that intel without clarifying what has been told is negligence. If he/she is lying, we need to go back to the water boarding room and persist until eventually, and inevitable, they spill the beans.

I am merely making a logical assumption. Considering the nature of torture and its world wide use, can you honestly say that torture is not a quicker way of cracking the man? What makes a terrorist any more likely to tell the truth while being interrogated? These are questions YOU need to answer to effectively disprove torture.

There is nothing logical in your argument but, it is surely an assumption. You obviously know nothing about torture and take the word of only those people who line up with your political leanings.

I do almost all the work that needs to be done on my property. Some things I may have never done before but, if it's something that I can teach myself I'll research it and do it. i.e. falling trees, running a new circuit to the pool filter, adding a garage, building a 16x24 shed, replacing a roof, replacing a main circuit breaker, etc. However, some things take specialized machines, manpower and experience that I cannot learn or do myself so, I hire experts. I needed a new driveway but, did not have access to the machines or the manpower required so, I hired a reputable local company, who came highly recommended. Same when I needed a foundation dug and poured for the garage.

I take the same approach to torture. I listen to the professionals, and people who have actually been tortured, who know much more about this than I do. The only intelligent assumption to make on torture is that a person will say anything to stop the pain. Think about it. If I were twisting your arm almost to the point where your arm was about to break with my boot stepping on your throat, you would tell me anything to get me to stop. Our military are trained how to deal longer with torture but, they are also taught that every man has a breaking point and that all they are asked to do is to hold out as long as they can. If they break and give up information after being tortured it will not be held against them and they will not be considered traitors. Why is this? Because they know that anybody will break, sooner or later. There are no Jack Bauers.

Also, in your argument you assume the tortured has info to give up. What if he doesn't have any and can't convince his captors of this?
 
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Originally Posted by ADK_Forever I certainly don't want to read into what your anemic posting of 2 lone links means. Can you link those 2 links to taking our country to war or not?


BTW, Will you be linking to US courts convicting US Soldiers of torture for waterboarding anytime soon or are you avoiding this lie of yours hoping it will go away

4th request, or are you conceding you were lying?

So I take it you can't make a case for us going to war based on those 2 lonely links... right?

Where did I say "US soldiers" were convicted of waterboarding?
 
So I take it you can't make a case for us going to war based on those 2 lonely links... right?

Where did I say "US soldiers" were convicted of waterboarding?




Playing obtuse now? Please follow the thread back to where you made the claim. Don't try to coward out by suggesting you didn't mean "US soldiers" because if you did, your point would make zero sense. or in your case -2 sense. :thumbs:
 
Playing obtuse now? Please follow the thread back to where you made the claim. Don't try to coward out by suggesting you didn't mean "US soldiers" because if you did, your point would make zero sense. or in your case -2 sense. :thumbs:

I know this is going to be a hard concept for you to accept buuuuut, words matter. If you are going to childishly accuse someone of lying, it would be in your best interest to make damn sure you have your facts straight. And here, once again, you don't.

You really do like to hide behind the internet's skirts, don't you? What do you think might happen, in the real world, if you accused another man of lying and were 100% wrong? Hell, the issue here isn't even that you're wrong. You're just a damn liar.
 
Good. Glad that he had the balls to stand up for what's right despite all these extremists out to crucify him for not putting ice cream on Khalid's brownie.

So doing the same acts as our enemy will not set us apart.
They don't waterboard POWs over there. They behead them. Go spend some time in a Taliban prison, then come back here and ask if we're that bad.

And the purpose of interrogation isn't to "bet the better man", it's to extract information. If you think waterboarding is "torture", then 1. that's nonsense, since it doesn't cause any permanent harm, and 2. I could care less when it comes to terrorist scum. An eye for an eye, I say.

The man even defended his action
Good for him. That sure takes bigger balls than you sniping at him here (and no, I'm no Bush fan, but I'm not deranged enough to go after him for something this ridiculous).
disgusting.

Not at all. I'm only disgusted that they were so soft on him. He should have waterboarded him with hydrochloric acid. Water? Seriously George, don't be such a *****. You got us into this war, so the least you can do is redeem yourself but treating terrorists like the subhuman dreck they are. But good job anyway.
 
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There is nothing logical in your argument but, it is surely an assumption. You obviously know nothing about torture and take the word of only those people who line up with your political leanings.

I do almost all the work that needs to be done on my property. Some things I may have never done before but, if it's something that I can teach myself I'll research it and do it. i.e. falling trees, running a new circuit to the pool filter, adding a garage, building a 16x24 shed, replacing a roof, replacing a main circuit breaker, etc. However, some things take specialized machines, manpower and experience that I cannot learn or do myself so, I hire experts. I needed a new driveway but, did not have access to the machines or the manpower required so, I hired a reputable local company, who came highly recommended. Same when I needed a foundation dug and poured for the garage.

I take the same approach to torture. I listen to the professionals, and people who have actually been tortured, who know much more about this than I do. The only intelligent assumption to make on torture is that a person will say anything to stop the pain. Think about it. If I were twisting your arm almost to the point where your arm was about to break with my boot stepping on your throat, you would tell me anything to get me to stop. Our military are trained how to deal longer with torture but, they are also taught that every man has a breaking point and that all they are asked to do is to hold out as long as they can. If they break and give up information after being tortured it will not be held against them and they will not be considered traitors. Why is this? Because they know that anybody will break, sooner or later. There are no Jack Bauers.


These are your beliefs. Interrogation doesn't always work, and the same can be said with torture. To say it never works is ludicrous. Combining the two i believe is effective. Khalid obviously became an asset.

Also, in your argument you assume the tortured has info to give up. What if he doesn't have any and can't convince his captors of this?

We need to draw a fine line when torture begins and when it ends. As it stands no such line exists so i cannot properly support what Bush ordered. However, in this case, it is likely the captive will die. Considering he is just a terrorist, torturing him to death actually appeals to me and im sure you will agree it sends out a strong message to other terrorists. I wouldn't want to pay tax payer money to house terrorists, even in a prison cell. Would much rather all of those caught where tortured to death if there crimes have been proven in a court case. Sorry, but i feel no sympathy towards those vile beasts. :shrug:
 
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These are your beliefs.

Yes, based on experts' opinions!


Khalid obviously became an asset.

So, what did he say that makes you think so?


Sorry, but i feel no sympathy towards those vile beasts.

Nor do I. My concern is getting real data that can help us, not send us on wild goose chases.
 


I get your frustration with this war, with this enemy, with their use of religion to fuel their fires. But, nowhere in your eloquent post is anything showing that torture is "effective". Using the right wing rhetoric that "it is only the liberals and the left who are against torture" is disingenuous and an excuse to inflict pain on our enemy. Many Repubs have come out against torture, including the Repubs' god Ronnie Reagan! If you can take your I-hate-anything-left blinders off and look at this issue with a clear mind you just might see that there are very real reasons why professional like Soufan are against torture... it just doesn't work. Our enemies don't come filled with more hate for us than KSM. Yet, Soufan elicited very good intel from him with conversation and intelligence. He didn't have to break his arm or drown him. THAT is how actionable, real intelligence is gotten.



I am heartened with your acknowledgment of the frustration over the war brought to us against radical Islam, however, I need to clarify a few things for you.

1st. - I am neither being disingenuous, nor deceptive when I say that terrorists captured require different methods of interrogation to glean the intel we need to prevail. It is a fact. And I would say in response that your attempt to dismiss that through what you ascribe to me is what is indeed disingenuous.

2nd. - It is not that I "hate" anything left, as much as I disagree with its ends, and its self loathing of the country that they derive their very existence from yet display such guilt over being born in the freest, most prosperous country on earth.

3rd. - Yes, there are real statements from past Presidents like Reagan, and even Geo. Bush that you can point to regarding torture, and the repulsive nature of true torture. I have even stated that I am against that. However, I don't believe that we have, or do indeed torture as a policy.

That you can point to an ex interrogator, and hold up his statements as endemic of how the CIA feels toward policies instituted toward the prime objective of the agency as a whole, is just plain wrong, and I think simplifies the subject too far. It is the use of what Marx called 'useful idiots' that is offensive here.

Lastly on this paragraph, If you really don't believe that our enemies in the Islamic Jihad against the west harbor the exact opposite emotion toward us that they do for a figure like KSM then all I can tell you brother, you just don't understand what we are up against.

Here are a few links to sites showing Repub leaders who are against torture. Are their eyes and ears plugged too?


VetVoice:: Petraeus Against Torture, For Closing Gitmo

GOP were Against Torture Before Being For It - Reagan and Newt | coonsey's Blog

And from another professional who knows what is torture, what the effects of torture are and how our use of it actually helped Al Qaeda to recruit more terrorists. We in effect, by torturing them, only help our enemy. How does that make any sense?

Do you believe that General Petraeus, or any of the professionals that you fail to name other than those that can be used to further only your particular point of view, really believe that this struggle can be won by showing weakness? it is a primary cause that the Islamic Jihad feels that they can attack without much if any reprisal now.

The long debunked argument that it is only our actions that is causing recruitment, or the jihad to begin with is naive, and has been shown as such many moons ago. It is a point that you have to make, just not a very good one.


Before I arrived at SERE, I went to S21 prison in Cambodia. Right next to the Wall of Skulls sits the exact waterboard platform that the SERE program copied for our own use in the training program. [/INDENT]Is Nance, and Reagan!, really more liberal lefties that you're going to ignore simply because they agree with the left's views of torture?

There are hundreds of such sites with intelligent reasons why torture makes no sense. If you can remove your anti-liberal glasses, I am confident you'll see that using torture on our enemies does not help us or our cause at all.


I know it must be easier to place in a box everything someone says that disagrees with your own point of view as anti liberal, or somehow extreme right wing. Lord knows that I have on occasion been guilty of doing the same in the reverse. However, as a dichotomy you could then prose that everything you are saying to me can be turned with the simple replacement of liberal for conservative. Just because someone doesn't see it your way, doesn't mean that they are just plain wrong.

I for one see where you are coming from, and have great admiration for the wide eyed longing for a truly peaceful world. I just think that until that day comes we can not, and should not be the only ones to give up our ideals, and lives just to prove a point.

You mentioned things about the closing of "Gitmo" and it can also be shown where Bush wanted that as well. Many do, not because it is a real and living torture camp or anything like that, but rather because it is a perception of such grave, and dower things. And why is that? In my view, because those on the left that opposed the war, also opposed the camp, and therefore launched an orchestrated campaign of smearing it. Did some of those things happen there? Yes. But if it were so damned easy to just close it down, and sing cumbya then why hasn't Obama done it yet.....? I know its complicated right?

Here is a present day liberal outlet talking about this very thing....


Video: Ass Quest 2010 | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Start watching around 3:00 in.


j-mac
 
compared to the murderous US troops of course. :roll:

I notice you didn't answer with a specific example.


Oh and a note convictions. Torture really is good at getting confessions. All the litature everyone will confess. They could get you to confess to killing Snata Claus.
 
I notice you didn't answer with a specific example.


Oh and a note convictions. Torture really is good at getting confessions. All the litature everyone will confess. They could get you to confess to killing Snata Claus.


Yeah, that's the standard reply from the uber libs out there, and has been for quite some time now. However, seems you can never quite get around how it is that the waterboarding of today is nothing like that of Pol Pot, or other despots through out history that use it to extremes. All you can do from this point is inflate numbers of times used, and make vague statements that you think everyone is subjected to the practice.

About what one would expect from someone who believes in the Lancet numbers even after they were debunked.


j-mac
 
These are your beliefs. Interrogation doesn't always work, and the same can be said with torture. To say it never works is ludicrous. Combining the two i believe is effective. Khalid obviously became an asset.

A professional interrogator just doesn't haul off and start waterboarding (not torture btw, if it was we would have tortured scores of our own troops), and when it gets to that point, the interrogator usually has ample info to find out what is truth and what is bull. That alone will make the recipient of cool water treatment a little uncomfortable, and rightly so... they're ****ing terrorist assholes intent on harming us.

Extracting information by a physically harmless act (nobody has died of waterboarding), temporary discomfort and a little panic could save hundreds, thousands or even hundreds of thousands of lives... then by all means... welcome the terrorist scum to waterworld.

You see, that kind of behavior saves lives, just as the Officer that put a gun to a terrorista's head, threatening to pull the trigger saved the lives of his men. He was thrown out of the military if I recall, but his men avoided an ambush, saving lives.

Hero or war criminal?

Hero.

.
 
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