• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

Kerry was a soldier during that time, so I don't know what your getting at?

Bush committed his crime as president, and was the person giving the order. Kerry was a soldier who had orders coming from other people. I think we should try the people giving orders, instead of individual soldiers, who would have been court martialed for not following said orders.



I see, so by this logic those at abu gharib need to be released then as well?
 
It's a little different when it's pockets of individuals, rather than common policy.




your making two rules now, one for your guy, and another for anyone else. :shrug: furthermore, Kerry was talking about his "pocket" of individuals.
 
How many times are you going to pathetically attempt to insult me? seriously dood, in one breath you open your mouth and hurl insults, and in the next you whine about me supposedly insulting you. Pathetic.....

This from the king of personal attacks? Seriously?
Where did I attack you, poor boy?


That said, your clear double standard exposes you for the partisan hack you are. Admission to supposed war crimes obsolves one of it? how odd... well not really for an obama apparactchik such as yourself. seriously man, get a grip. Either they are both culpable or neither.

In fact I would argue that kerry needs to be charged based on his sworn testimony for war crimes. Waterboarding wasn't declared torture by US courts was it?

Let me get this straight. You try to make the argument above that I attacked you. Then you proceed to call me names immediately afterwards? The irony, hypocrisy and ubiquitous bullying behavior of that probably goes right over your head. :lol:

Nice dancing around the issue. Or do you truly not understand it?

US courts have convicted soldiers and civilians of waterboarding.
It is quite accepted by SCOTUS as torture.
 
This from the king of personal attacks? Seriously?
Where did I attack you, poor boy?


"poor boy"


right there you hack.



Let me get this straight. You try to make the argument above that I attacked you. Then you proceed to call me names immediately afterwards? The irony, hypocrisy and ubiquitous bullying behavior of that probably goes right over your head. :lol:


I simply call it as I see it. I don't whine about you calling me names and crying about being bullied. :shrug:


Your a hack and not a very bright man I must admit. you go post after post attacking me, then playing obtuse when I point it out. only to whine when I return the favor and point out how you are too afraid to take this nonsense to a place where we can really get into it.



Nice dancing around the issue. Or do you truly not understand it?

US courts have convicted soldiers and civilians of waterboarding.
It is quite accepted by SCOTUS as torture.[/B]


Please link to us courts convicting US Soldiers of torture for waterboarding or stop lying as you are known to do.
 
Last edited:
Yes, because flowers, and a good steak would have gotten so much more information.....


j-mac

No one suggests any such thing, although in Iraq we did get better intel when we started using less brutal efforts. General Odierno spoke to this. SO, silliness aside, torture is ahrdly effective, let a lone most effective.
 
No one suggests any such thing, although in Iraq we did get better intel when we started using less brutal efforts. General Odierno spoke to this. SO, silliness aside, torture is ahrdly effective, let a lone most effective.



Perhaps torture is not, but historically waterboarding has been,
 
Perhaps torture is not, but historically waterboarding has been,

has been torture. Yes, that is correct. It will get you confessions and as much misinformation as you insist upon. See al Libi.
 
has been torture. Yes, that is correct. It will get you confessions and as much misinformation as you insist upon. See al Libi.




See KSM who the CIA admitted recieved the bulk of his usable information from the practice.
 
I simply call it as I see it. I don't whine about you calling me names and crying about being bullied.

You call it as you want to see it. All you do is whine about everybody else whenever they return your childish taunts. Grow up for god's sake. :roll:

Please link to us courts convicting US Soldiers of torture for waterboarding or stop lying as you are known to do.

Stop "lying"? For someone who goes out of his way to brag about his so-called tough military training, it is amazing how insecure you are, how quickly you have to resort to name calling. :roll:
 
You call it as you want to see it. All you do is whine about everybody else whenever they return your childish taunts. Grow up for god's sake. :roll:



Stop "lying"? For someone who goes out of his way to brag about his so-called tough military training, it is amazing how insecure you are, how quickly you have to resort to name calling. :roll:



So no links to US courts convicting US Soldiers of torture for waterboarding as you claimed?


Didn't think so. there is nothing I need to say upon the rest of your post that your lack of answer does not already show. :shrug:
 
See KSM who the CIA admitted recieved the bulk of his usable information from the practice.

Have you read the list of things he confessed to? Seriously. He must have been super Al Qaeda.

And can you point to any specific intel we got from him we didn't already have or that actually led to anything? It's easy to say we got something, but nothing given as evidence has actually panned out.
 
Have you read the list of things he confessed to? Seriously. He must have been super Al Qaeda.

And can you point to any specific intel we got from him we didn't already have or that actually led to anything? It's easy to say we got something, but nothing given as evidence has actually panned out.



you don't think the cia is adept at deciphering this information? Why use it if it sucked as bad as you all claim, seems odd.
 
you don't think the cia is adept at deciphering this information? Why use it if it sucked as bad as you all claim, seems odd.

What I or you think is irrelevent. What is needed is evidence. I have evidence of us getting misinformation and using it (al Libi). Simply beleiving something without evidence is more like what a tool does. Everything the Bush administration has presented has not panned out. Why do you think they gave us stuff as evidence that wasn't true instead of something we could confirm? Isn't possible they really didn't get anything? With an open mind, would you say it is possible?
 
What I or you think is irrelevent. What is needed is evidence. I have evidence of us getting misinformation and using it (al Libi). Simply beleiving something without evidence is more like what a tool does. Everything the Bush administration has presented has not panned out. Why do you think they gave us stuff as evidence that wasn't true instead of something we could confirm? Isn't possible they really didn't get anything? With an open mind, would you say it is possible?



What evidence have you presented, I'd hate for you to be the "hammer" in all this afterall. :lamo
 
What evidence have you presented, I'd hate for you to be the "hammer" in all this afterall. :lamo

Al Libi. You can look that up anytime you want, but everyone one any political forum should know about him. He should be common knowledge. And that is at least one more specific example than you have provided.

So, why do you not address the point?
 
Last edited:
Al Libi. YOu can look that up anytime you want, but everyone onn any political forum should know about him. He should be common knowledge.



So in other words, you have no link are are hoping that I simply take your word for it.


If that is the case, than you equally have to take my word regarding the useful info we obtained from KSM. :shrug:
 
So in other words, you have no link are are hoping that I simply take your word for it.


If that is the case, than you equally have to take my word regarding the useful info we obtained from KSM. :shrug:

No there are many links. Do you really need me to do it yet again?

According to CIA sources, Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi, after two weeks of enhanced interrogation, made statements that were designed to tell the interrogators what they wanted to hear. Sources say Al Libbi had been subjected to each of the progressively harsher techniques in turn and finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.


His statements became part of the basis for the Bush administration claims that Iraq trained al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons. Sources tell ABC that it was later established that al Libbi had no knowledge of such training or weapons and fabricated the statements because he was terrified of further harsh treatment.

CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described - ABC News

If you had even passing knowledge about this issue, you would know about al Libi.
 
No there are many links. Do you really need me to do it yet again?

According to CIA sources, Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi, after two weeks of enhanced interrogation, made statements that were designed to tell the interrogators what they wanted to hear. Sources say Al Libbi had been subjected to each of the progressively harsher techniques in turn and finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.


His statements became part of the basis for the Bush administration claims that Iraq trained al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons. Sources tell ABC that it was later established that al Libbi had no knowledge of such training or weapons and fabricated the statements because he was terrified of further harsh treatment.

CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described - ABC News

If you had even passing knowledge about this issue, you would know about al Libi.



Wow, Im impressed you actually posted a link. Kudos to you. :lamo


You still haven't addressed my question. Why would we employ waterboarding if it didn't work? Tell me, what the purpose would be then?


Since you bring up the anecdotal, so shall I.


Water-boarding worked wonders, ex-agent says: The Swamp

RealClearPolitics - Waterboarding Worked on KSM



Score, 2 the Good Reverend, 1 for Boo......


Your serve. :lamo
 
Wow, Im impressed you actually posted a link. Kudos to you. :lamo


You still haven't addressed my question. Why would we employ waterboarding if it didn't work? Tell me, what the purpose would be then?


Since you bring up the anecdotal, so shall I.


Water-boarding worked wonders, ex-agent says: The Swamp

RealClearPolitics - Waterboarding Worked on KSM



Score, 2 the Good Reverend, 1 for Boo......


Your serve. :lamo

That's not much of a question. Do you believe we never do anything consistently that doesn't work? The fact is, we didn't do waterboarding after VN until the Bush administration sought to encourage such law breaking. Again, if you look (in books), and I don't consider myself your personal library, you will find writings from all kinds of sources showing exactly what torture, including waterboarding can and can't do effectively. You will get confessions. Almost no one will ever refuse to confess, regardless of guilt (revisit KSM's long list of confessions). They will tell you anything you want to hear, and you will likely get misinformation. See al Libi.

So, if you're the Bush administration, you get the confessions and intel you want to present. See al Libi. So, for them, it worked. Just not the way they claim it worked. So there was a reason for using it. Also, you might dig a little and find who spilled the beans on the WH concerning torture. There was dissent from within.

So, for me, and try to show me any evidence we actually got anything that was really useful, that we couldn't have gotten another way, and that makes the misinformation an acceptable risk.
 
Last edited:
Of course waterboarding works, lol. Obviously we need to clarify what is said in case it was said out of sheer fear. If the source is wrong we water board him again! We really need to draw the line where human rights apply in regards to terrorists.
 
oh, forgot to mention, someone saying it worked wonders doesn't equal them proving it worked wonders. So, your score is actually zero. ;)
 
That's not much of a question. Do you believe we never do anything consistently that doesn't work? The fact is, we didn't do waterboarding after VN until the Bush administration sought to encourage such law breaking. Again, if you look (in books), and I don't consider myself your personal library, you will find writings from all kinds of sources showing exactly what torture, including waterboarding can and can't do effectively. You will get confessions. Almost no one will ever refuse to confess, regardless of guilt (revisit KSM's long list of confessions). They will tell you anything you want to hear, and you will likely get misinformation. See al Libi.

So, if you're the Bush administration, you get the confessions and intel you want to present. See al Libi. So, for them, it worked. Just not the way they claim it worked. So there was a reason for using it. Also, you might dig a little and find who spilled the beans on the WH concerning torture. There was dissent from within.

So, for me, and try to show me any evidence we actually got anything that was really useful, that we couldn't have gotten another way, and that makes the misinformation an acceptable risk.



I did show you. You choose to believe what you want to believe. :shrug:
 
oh, forgot to mention, someone saying it worked wonders doesn't equal them proving it worked wonders. So, your score is actually zero. ;)




wow. the FAIL is strong with you today. Turn that around and apply it to your anecdotal. :shrug:
 
Of course waterboarding works, lol. Obviously we need to clarify what is said in case it was said out of sheer fear. If the source is wrong we water board him again! We really need to draw the line where human rights apply in regards to terrorists.

In the case of al Libi, he didn't have the intel. So, wasting our time. And we have tortured others who knew nothing and who were merely innocent civilians. One such evnen died.
 
Back
Top Bottom