• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

.


Would like to take this opportunity to tell the forum a little about myself. If somebody is torturing me, I am going to be singing like a ****ing canary.

Ok. Carry on....


.
 
.


Would like to take this opportunity to tell the forum a little about myself. If somebody is torturing me, I am going to be singing like a ****ing canary.

Ok. Carry on....


.

I know, like most, even if you have nothing to sing about. Al Libi did that for us as well. ;)
 
I know, like most, even if you have nothing to sing about. Al Libi did that for us as well. ;)

In case you mis-understood my message, am not talking about "making things up". I would be inclined to be tell the truth. And the reality is, if my captors were even suggesting i was going to be tortured I would tend to be forthcoming with information.

Don't interpret this as being a supporter of torture. I'm not. But this constant drumbeat that "torture just doesn't work" strikes me as ludicrous. Am sure there are those bad guys that will/can stand firm for the cause and give nothing but bogus info. But am guessing that many/most are a little less pure warriors.

Which again brings us back to what definition of "torture" we are talking about. There is a pretty wide spectrum in the current debates. Loud music or stress positions is a far cry from waterboarding. (and my understanding is that waterboarding was used in only a tiny fraction of the cases....)



.
 
You made two claims that I believe are false:

1) The abuses at Abu Ghraib were part of authorized US policy, as opposed to unauthorized actions, and
2) That that policy was set in place by Bush or Cheney.

I'm still waiting for a shred of evidence to back up either claim.

Note that I'm not referring to things like stress positions, sleep deprivation, etc. I'm referring to the things that made Abu Ghraib notorious - the physical beatings, the rape, etc.

Because you didn't say anything of substance. You argued that Gitmo was bad, and as proof you cited the fact that "republicans" had resigned. That's not really something worth responding to.

Your disingenuous reply is noted. Your wordsmithing is as transparent as a pane of glass. Your attempt to derail honest discussions of facts, i.e. Senate Armed Services Committee findings, show you don't deserve my honest continuation in this, or any, debate with you. You wouldn't admit that your heroes Bush, Cheeney, Rummy, Rice, etc. lied to this country to take us into their illegal war of choice, authorized illegal torture and many more treasonist activities if they wrote it out in their own blood. :2wave:
 
Your disingenuous reply is noted. Your wordsmithing is as transparent as a pane of glass. Your attempt to derail honest discussions of facts, i.e. Senate Armed Services Committee findings, show you don't deserve my honest continuation in this, or any, debate with you. You wouldn't admit that your heroes Bush, Cheeney, Rummy, Rice, etc. lied to this country to take us into their illegal war of choice, authorized illegal torture and many more treasonist activities if they wrote it out in their own blood. :2wave:

Abu Ghraib was a disaster and a scar on our nation. Don't think there are a lot of arguments on that one. But have never heard of an viable reports that suggest Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld knew anything about what was going on there. Let alone that they condoned those atrocities.

You have something to the contrary that you can share.....???


.
 
Yes, it was the exact same water boarding.

No it wasn't, it was coupled with beatings.
Beating him is another offense.

The beating was coupled with the waterboarding.

Just so you know, we beat some folks as well. I specifically recall a fellow in Afghanistan who wasn't guilty of anything who died while being beaten.

Prove that it was a soldier carrying out orders.

But that's beside the point. The waterboarding technique was the same.

No it wasn't it was coupled beating.
 
No it wasn't, it was coupled with beatings.

The beating was coupled with the waterboarding.



Prove that it was a soldier carrying out orders.



No it wasn't it was coupled beating.

Doesn't matter what you couple with it, the waterboarding procedure was the same. And that procedure was called torture. It was listed with those other elements and not as a catch all.

As for the man in Afghanistan, you should know the story:

Although incidents of prisoner abuse at Bagram in 2002, including some details of the two men's deaths, have been previously reported, American officials have characterized them as isolated problems that were thoroughly investigated. And many of the officers and soldiers interviewed in the Dilawar investigation said the large majority of detainees at Bagram were compliant and reasonably well treated.

"What we have learned through the course of all these investigations is that there were people who clearly violated anyone's standard for humane treatment," said the Pentagon's chief spokesman, Larry Di Rita. "We're finding some cases that were not close calls."

Yet the Bagram file includes ample testimony that harsh treatment by some interrogators was routine and that guards could strike shackled detainees with virtual impunity. Prisoners considered important or troublesome were also handcuffed and chained to the ceilings and doors of their cells, sometimes for long periods, an action Army prosecutors recently classified as criminal assault.

Some of the mistreatment was quite obvious, the file suggests. Senior officers frequently toured the detention center, and several of them acknowledged seeing prisoners chained up for punishment or to deprive them of sleep. Shortly before the two deaths, observers from the International Committee of the Red Cross specifically complained to the military authorities at Bagram about the shackling of prisoners in "fixed positions," documents show.

Even though military investigators learned soon after Mr. Dilawar's death that he had been abused by at least two interrogators, the Army's criminal inquiry moved slowly. Meanwhile, many of the Bagram interrogators, led by the same operations officer, Capt. Carolyn A. Wood, were redeployed to Iraq and in July 2003 took charge of interrogations at the Abu Ghraib prison. According to a high-level Army inquiry last year, Captain Wood applied techniques there that were "remarkably similar" to those used at Bagram.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse.html?pagewanted=print
 
Abu Ghraib was a disaster and a scar on our nation. Don't think there are a lot of arguments on that one. But have never heard of an viable reports that suggest Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld knew anything about what was going on there. Let alone that they condoned those atrocities.

You have something to the contrary that you can share.....???

Well, it was all over the news. A simple google search would produce hundreds of links for you. All you have to do is look.

Read the links I, and others, have provided in this thread. There are several links within those articles.. All show proof that the Bush admin authorized torture not only at Gitmo but, at Abu Ghraib as well. Innocent people were tried, convicted and sent to jail. And none of those cowards (Bush, Cheeney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Rice, etc.) came forward to defend those people for carrying out their orders.

Here are a few to get you started.


"Wolfowitz said GTMO should use more aggressive interrogation techniques" - Torture - Salon.com

The Abu Ghraib files - Torture - Salon.com /

Enjoy!
 
Well, it was all over the news. A simple google search would produce hundreds of links for you. All you have to do is look.

Read the links I, and others, have provided in this thread. There are several links within those articles.. All show proof that the Bush admin authorized torture not only at Gitmo but, at Abu Ghraib as well. Innocent people were tried, convicted and sent to jail. And none of those cowards (Bush, Cheeney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Rice, etc.) came forward to defend those people for carrying out their orders.

Here are a few to get you started.


"Wolfowitz said GTMO should use more aggressive interrogation techniques" - Torture - Salon.com

The Abu Ghraib files - Torture - Salon.com /

Enjoy!

And how are they defining torture? They're defining waterboarding as torture, the administration did not authorize the actual torture, the most severe thing that was authorized was waterboarding.
 
How about if this guy held vital intel and wasn't talking? Intel that would save thousands of lives?

Does water boarding really become so immoral? You'd be amazed how sometimes a wrong can make a right.
 
No it wasn't we don't beat people while they are being waterboarded.



Case summary or case name?

Waterboarding was called torture when we prosecuted the Japanese, and when we prosecuted the American soldiers. It wasn't because they hit them while doing it. You seriously are simply trying to rationalize something.
 
I agree with Aunt Spiker. If my family was in danger I would not waterboard anyone. I would find another way to save them. This is because I love my country and I am not willing to torture some one in order get information from them and ruin what I believe are important values to this country.
I don't think anyone is qualified to answer this question unless they personally experienced such a scenario. Those who won't use all methods available to save their family, I think under estimate their own instincts.
 
so pathetic how ideologues try to apply best case scenarios to WAR
if war was fought by ideologues
the war would be over in days if not hours
ideals have no place in reality when War is concerned
it is but wishful thinking of monday morning arm chair quarterbacking

As USELESS as fantasy footbal
 
so pathetic how ideologues try to apply best case scenarios to WAR
if war was fought by ideologues
the war would be over in days if not hours
ideals have no place in reality when War is concerned
it is but wishful thinking of monday morning arm chair quarterbacking

As USELESS as fantasy footbal

Don't go blasting fantasy football. Now you're crossin' a line....



.
 
Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed, and I'd 'do it again'

So doing the same acts as our enemy will not set us apart. The man even defended his action disgusting.
It's not torture, and all I can say it... Thanks Mr. President for taking your oath to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic deadly serious.

R-H-no,
I think Lincoln would have laughed at your OP. Truman, FDR and Ike too.

Nobody's died from waterboarding.
If it were torture, many US Military personnel should be compensated for being tortured by their government.
Generals and officers should be court marshaled. Oh hell, that might be giving too much info to an eager enemy of our military... the Democrats.

.
 
Last edited:
It's not torture, and all I can say it... Thanks Mr. President for taking your oath to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic deadly serious.

R-H-no,
I think Lincoln would have laughed at your OP. Truman, FDR and Ike too.

Nobody's died from waterboarding.
If it were torture, many US Military personnel should be compensated for being tortured by their government.
Generals and officers should be court marshaled. Oh hell, that might be giving too much info to an eager enemy of our military... the Democrats.

.

That's just silly and inaccurate.
 
Nobody's died from waterboarding.

Well, I guess you got us there. Oi vey! :roll:

If it were torture, many US Military personnel should be compensated for being tortured by their government.

psst::: One is torture... One is training... :mrgreen:
 
Well, I guess you got us there. Oi vey! :roll:



psst::: One is torture... One is training... :mrgreen:


Yes, because flowers, and a good steak would have gotten so much more information.....


j-mac
 
Yes, because flowers, and a good steak would have gotten so much more information.....

j-mac

Well, that's kinda how we got actionable, reliabel info from KSM and the Christmas Day/Underwear bomber. Experts agree. The expert who extracted intel from KSM with kindness and conversation agrees. Once the Cheney goons came in and started their testosterone filled torture is when the lies started.

Do you want the truth? Or to inflict pain?
 
Well, that's kinda how we got actionable, reliabel info from KSM and the Christmas Day/Underwear bomber. Experts agree. The expert who extracted intel from KSM with kindness and conversation agrees. Once the Cheney goons came in and started their testosterone filled torture is when the lies started.

Do you want the truth? Or to inflict pain?


Why no, I think we should just give in to the radical islamists demands, then they could like us.....

j-mac
 
Well, that's kinda how we got actionable, reliabel info from KSM and the Christmas Day/Underwear bomber. Experts agree. The expert who extracted intel from KSM with kindness and conversation agrees. Once the Cheney goons came in and started their testosterone filled torture is when the lies started.

Do you want the truth? Or to inflict pain?





The truth? from you? :lamo


Come on be serious for once... :lamo



Did you make this up or do you have any links from reputable sites, not idiot partisan hack sites like troofout and moveon.org.
 
I love how no one is mentioning that Bush confused to a war crime.
 
Back
Top Bottom