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Thread: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Abu Ghraib was a disaster because of policy breakdowns and individual malfeasance, not because we were trying to turn it into what it was. Gitmo is run perfectly fine.
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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Is your tongue firmly implanted in your cheek?
    Are you arguing that the US government wanted Abu Ghraib to turn out the way it did?
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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    We didn't redefine the status of anyone they never fell with in the category of protected persons as defined by the Geneva Conventions themselves.
    Yeah you did. You took non-state actors and called them enemy combattants, which the Geneva Convention does not address.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The U.S. and U.N. definition of torture is subjective.
    Who they have prosecuted is not. In VN the US prosecuted US soldiers for waterboarding, the same practice done today.

    Not the same type of waterboarding, the Japanese were prosecuted for forcing people to swallow water until their stomach descended and then beating the descended stomachs. IIRC the Sheriff who was prosecuted was not prosecuted for waterboarding but for corruption and no one can provide original source material (IE a case summary) involving the alleged prosecution of a soldier in Vietnam who supposedly was convicted for torture because he waterboarded someone.
    Not the Japanese, US soldiers in VN.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I watched a video of that journalist, Pearl, having his head slowly sawed off by terrorists. He was terrified, and before his head ever came off he went from screaming to making inhuman-sounding croaking noises.
    What are you talking about Goshin? Terrorists don't do that. That's just insane. Don't you know, people in this thread tell us we're doing the same thing as them and its clear we're not cutting peoples heads off. I mean look, how can these statements not be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    If you condone torture, then you shouldn't complain about your own getting the same treatment.
    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    So doing the same acts as our enemy will not set us apart.
    See Goshin, you must be lying...we're just doing the same thing they're doing, and we're not cutting off heads, so obvious that isn't happening.

    Or maybe no, maybe the'll all equal and thus you're telling the truth but you're just wrong in thinking anythings different...

    Like if you go over the speed limit in your car then you should have no problem if someone plows into you going 100 mph, because if you're going to violate traffic laws then you better expect others to too.

    Or like if you've ever lied to someone then you shouldn't have any problem or be upset if you get conned by scam artist or bilked by an Enron type company, because if you're going to lie then you better expect others to too.

    Or I mean, if you've ever looked at another person and thought "Damn I bet they'd be a good ****" while you're married then you can't be upset if your spouse goes and takes part in a gang bang, because if you're going to do lewd things regarding other people then you better expect your spouse to do it as well.

    Don't you see Goshin! We're EXACTLY like them, waterboarding is JUST like cutting peoples heads off, we're absolutely no different and its clear and obvious that if you do any negative act that is under the same extremely broad umbrella of a particular type of negative act then you're JUST like people that do the most extreme acts covered under said umbrella.

    I mean, duh man...those two posters said so, it must be true.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Are you arguing that the US government wanted Abu Ghraib to turn out the way it did?
    I thought I looked at your profile awhile ago. I don't recall seeing "comedien" as your occupation. But, my eyes are starting to fail me.

    If you're looking to play ball.... It's been established that torture orders came down from Rummy, maybe even higher, thru Gen Sanchez. CIA spooks were in there directing those National Guardsmen in what to do. Those convicted were scapegoats for the likes of neo-cons Rummy, Cheeney and Bush's warped ideas of American honor.

    Guantanamo was a disaster. Perhaps you read about all the admin Republican attorneys and judges resigning over it?

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    My apologies, I left "if they used waterboarding in the same fashion we did" off of the end. Didn't make much sense without it.



    Abu Ghraib was a disaster because of policy breakdowns and individual malfeasance, not because we were trying to turn it into what it was. Gitmo is run perfectly fine.
    From what I have read, Gitmo is not fine. Waiting years without representiton is not fine. Torture is not fine. There have been way too many cases at Gitmo that have fallen through the cracks.

    But I digress. Torture is wrong. Especially when it is committed by a country that should be held to a much higher standard that the Taliban.
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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Torture is wrong.
    Torture isn't always wrong. That's why moral justifications can even exist for it.

    But because it is a very difficult line to tread, the government should always be prevented from utilizing it.


    Just because an action may be morally justified and even morally "right", doesn't mean that the government should be granted the authority to engage in said action.
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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    What a ridiculous rant, Zyph.

    I have never equated waterboarding vs beheading. One is torture, the other is outright murder. I hold the US to a higher standard than the Taliban, and would never imagine beheading to become US policy in a time of war. Then again, I never expected torture to be acceptable either. But that has happened, and the pedistal that the US sat high on when it came to world view on humane treatment came falling down. C'mon... you're better than that.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Torture isn't always wrong. That's why moral justifications can even exist for it.

    But because it is a very difficult line to tread, the government should always be prevented from utilizing it.


    Just because an action may be morally justified and even morally "right", doesn't mean that the government should be granted the authority to engage in said action.
    I'll hear you out, Tucker. Give me a scenario were torture can be construed as morally right.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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